From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Nov 19 17:35:46 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAJFZit13275 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 17:35:44 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAJFZhV25510 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 17:35:43 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA08060; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 10:32:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 10:32:43 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: grabek@home.sweet.home Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: grabek To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: clear X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: thanks to all. :) -- pozdrawiam, grabek From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Nov 19 18:55:25 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAJGtPt22674 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:55:25 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAJGtOV01814 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:55:24 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA08628; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:53:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:53:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <19990723235659.3278.rocketmail@web113.yahoomail.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: paul_virak_khuong@yahoo.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Paul-V Khuong To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: Another beginner MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Happy can wrote: > Hello! Hi! > Ive got some ideas for writing warriors, but im > facing a frusterating problem: > i cant implement them since i dont know all of the > language, just the basics > from a few tutorials. Could anyone point me at some > tutorials or something? what do you mean??? there's only 14 or so opcode(?), about half as much instruction modifiers and even less addressing modes... You don't need tutorials to know the instruction set, though you need some to build warriors... > with my basic knowledge, ive come up with one > warrior so far. Its a primitive > version of an idea im playing with. sorry, but it's already been done 8^)(not that there's often completely original ideas in here) > ;Name Impfactory > ;Author Marshall > > SPL 0, 1 > MOV 0 Uh, it'd be: spl 0 mov 0,1 please note that we are now under the '94 instruction set...(go see the dox that came with pmars) > the idea is to use the SPL to make a bunch of imps > marching along and over each > other who will be difficult to destroy, since each > terminated imp speeds up the > factory. needless to say, this warrior is only good > right now for just hanging > on. once i learn some more i can start improving on > the cannon > fodder-processes concept=P > comments are always welcome One thing: how do you expect to win??? in fact, chances are that you will encounter a gate and that all your imps will die... > one other thing: my first idea for a warrior was one > that hoppen onto an > enemie's code also. I was planning to do this with a > simple dwarf and > substitute a SPL/JMP for the MOV command that fired > the bomb. Talk about making > a warrior with minimal effort : ) i only have to > slightly modify an existing > program, and my intention is the use my opponent's > programming skill =P It's been done in a tournament(homunculus by Pi Qan, i think) and on the 94m hill, but in a standard environment, it's not good: you can't win,(max score of 100, thus), but you can lose(min score of... _0_)... Btw, it seem that every new player does that in their first attempts.... Is it a constant??? I haven't done that... Everyone else??? === Vive le Québec libre... dé souverainistes!!! _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Nov 19 18:56:36 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAJGuZt12291 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:56:35 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAJGuYQ03128 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:56:34 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA08656; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:55:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:55:07 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200111190500.AAA05972@gevjon.ttsg.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: koth@koth.org Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Koth To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - MultiWarrior 94 11/19/01 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Weekly Status on 11/19/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html sleep 180 Current Status of the KOTH.ORG Multiwarrior 94 CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Fri Nov 16 05:38:10 EST 2001 # Name Author Score Age 1 D-clearM Ken Espiritu 44 84 2 fclear Brian Haskin 31 68 3 test John Metcalf 31 12 4 Xord Monominer XOSC:01 Gino Oblena 27 23 5 8thTest Gino Oblena 24 15 6 Pitbull Christian Schmidt 23 40 7 Carrot Grater v1.1 Brant D. Thomsen 21 2 8 Her Majesty P.Kline 20 103 9 QuiVa John Metcalf 13 177 10 sptst (4D-p) Stefan Foerster 11 1 11 Il est un dieu qui rit Thomas Baruchel ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:58:04 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAJGw2Q06648 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:58:02 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA08709; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:56:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:56:31 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200111190500.AAA05976@gevjon.ttsg.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: koth@koth.org Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Koth To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - ICWS Experimental 94 11/19/01 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Weekly Status on 11/19/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html sleep 180 Current Status of the KOTH.ORG ICWS Experimental 94 CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Wed Nov 14 21:26:16 EST 2001 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 34/ 19/ 47 KAT v5 Dave Hillis 150 31 2 40/ 33/ 26 Black Moods Ian Oversby 147 95 3 28/ 15/ 57 Katafutr Michal Janeczek 141 39 4 36/ 34/ 30 Ogre Christian Schmidt 139 47 5 38/ 40/ 22 Greetings From Asbury Par JKW 137 59 6 30/ 23/ 47 Damage Inflicted Robert Macrae 136 38 7 33/ 29/ 38 Big I.F.F.S. Dave Hillis 136 28 8 20/ 7/ 74 Denial David Moore 133 40 9 22/ 13/ 65 Kin John Metcalf 132 7 10 32/ 33/ 35 Controlled Aggression Ian Oversby 131 99 11 18/ 6/ 76 Black Box v1.1 JKW 130 62 12 18/ 7/ 75 Evol Cap 4 X John Wilkinson 129 168 13 17/ 4/ 79 Evolve X v4.0 John Wilkinson 129 116 14 23/ 19/ 59 Venom v0.2b Christian Schmidt 126 121 15 28/ 33/ 39 test CS 124 56 16 22/ 25/ 53 Disaster Area 2.8 Stefan Foerster 118 26 17 19/ 20/ 62 Purple v0.1 Christian Schmidt 118 120 18 19/ 21/ 60 sptst (4D-p) Stefan Foerster 116 1 19 31/ 46/ 24 Pagan John K W 116 153 20 27/ 44/ 29 Sand-Crawler John Metcalf 109 5 21 9/ 68/ 23 dwarf4 lmb 51 0 From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Nov 19 18:59:22 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAJGxMt18374 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:59:22 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAJGxLV01970 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:59:21 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA08744; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:57:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:57:56 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200111190500.AAA05980@gevjon.ttsg.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: koth@koth.org Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Koth To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - 94 No Pspace 11/19/01 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Weekly Status on 11/19/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html sleep 180 Current Status of the KOTH.ORG 94 No Pspace CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Sun Nov 18 06:09:40 EST 2001 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 37/ 24/ 38 Inky Ian Oversby 151 200 2 37/ 24/ 39 Quicksilver Michal Janeczek 149 483 3 34/ 22/ 44 Son of Vain Oversby/Pihlaja 146 310 4 44/ 42/ 14 Hazy Lazy ... Steve Gunnell 145 63 5 35/ 25/ 40 Olivia Ben Ford 144 449 6 35/ 27/ 39 Uninvited John Metcalf 143 403 7 45/ 48/ 6 He Scans Alone x P.Kline 143 49 8 42/ 42/ 16 Behemot Michal Janeczek 142 544 9 32/ 23/ 45 nPaper II Paul-V Khuong 141 721 10 36/ 32/ 32 Blacken Ian Oversby 140 968 11 27/ 14/ 59 The Phantom Menace Anton Marsden 139 421 12 32/ 29/ 40 Revival Fire P.Kline 135 189 13 31/ 28/ 41 AxID Burn Gino Oblena 134 144 14 34/ 35/ 30 Keyser Soze Anton Marsden 134 422 15 42/ 50/ 8 Test S M1 None 133 47 16 30/ 28/ 42 Qtest Christian Schmidt 132 243 17 41/ 50/ 9 Kenshin test 21 Steve Gunnell 132 23 18 38/ 46/ 16 Eraser II Ken Espiritu 130 678 19 37/ 46/ 16 G3 David Moore 128 1 20 40/ 51/ 10 Kenshin X test 13 Steve Gunnell 128 13 21 22/ 58/ 20 Odd Thing v1a Lukasz Grabun 85 0 From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Nov 19 19:01:00 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAJH10t24667 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:01:00 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAJH0wQ27741 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:00:59 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA08802; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:59:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:59:21 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: adamow@if.pw.edu.pl Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Lukasz Adamowski To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: Frogs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: On Mon, 19 Nov 2001, Steve Gunnell wrote: > On Sun, 18 Nov 2001 09:35, you wrote: > > Thomas Baruchel wrote: > > > org start > > > start spl frog > > > spl frog > > > frog mov <2,{2 > > > mov.X #1,19 > > > jmp 19,1 > > > > Hey, that's strange. I thought this warrior shouldn't work properly, it > > has two pre-decrements but only one address is reset... But when I ran it, > > I find that A-field pre-decrement works differently than B-field's. Or is > > it because A-address from "frog" line is counted firstly, then mov gets > > the cell and then B-address is counted? Anyway, if You wrote it after two > > days of learning RedCode, You are on the best way to be a champion. > > Lukasz > > Everyone else has probably replied to this but the mov.x copies both operands > to the destination address. > > Steve Gunnell > That's true, but if there was mov.ab in this place, the warrior would work quite the same way. There's no need to copy both operands, A-field is just left unchanged, check it yourself, if you don't believe me. Or is it a bug in pMARS? I still use 0.8.0 version. Anyway, it's a fine piece of code. Lukasz From corewar-l@koth.org Tue Nov 20 04:57:59 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAK2vxt12243 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 04:57:59 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAK2vwV00120 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 04:57:58 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA13196; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 21:56:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 21:56:15 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: paul_virak_khuong@yahoo.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: "Paul Khuong" To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: RE: Another beginner MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Status: RO X-Status: > -----Original Message----- > From: corewar-l@koth.org [mailto:corewar-l@koth.org]On Behalf Of Paul-V > Khuong > Sent: 19 novembre, 2001 11:54 > To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L > Subject: Re: Another beginner Where did THAT come from?? It's like VERY old, easily a year or two old. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.281 / Virus Database: 149 - Release Date: 01-09-18 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From corewar-l@koth.org Tue Nov 20 04:59:12 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAK2xCt15158 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 04:59:12 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAK2xBV00156 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 04:59:11 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA13222; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 21:57:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 21:57:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: paul_virak_khuong@yahoo.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: "Paul Khuong" To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: RE: Frogs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Status: RO X-Status: > -----Original Message----- > From: corewar-l@koth.org [mailto:corewar-l@koth.org]On Behalf Of Lukasz > Adamowski > Sent: 19 novembre, 2001 11:59 > To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L > Subject: Re: Frogs > > > On Mon, 19 Nov 2001, Steve Gunnell wrote: > > On Sun, 18 Nov 2001 09:35, you wrote: > > > Thomas Baruchel wrote: > > > > org start > > > > start spl frog > > > > spl frog > > > > frog mov <2,{2 > > > > mov.X #1,19 > > > > jmp 19,1 [snip] > That's true, but if there was mov.ab in this place, the warrior would work > quite the same way. There's no need to copy both operands, A-field is just > left unchanged, check it yourself, if you don't believe me. Or is it a bug > in pMARS? I still use 0.8.0 version. > Anyway, it's a fine piece of code. In-register evaluation, i guess. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.281 / Virus Database: 149 - Release Date: 01-09-18 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From corewar-l@koth.org Wed Nov 21 23:37:19 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fALLaFt16012 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 23:36:15 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fALLaET26100 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 23:36:14 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA02515; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:33:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:33:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <20011121.213329.1605908235.1962@localhost.localdomain> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: grabek@acn.waw.pl Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: "grabek" To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: new warrior Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: A howdy core warriors... here is something i programmed recently. it's a 50% stun bomber that uses indirect addresing mode for bomb throwing. well, it's the best i ever have made till now and it scores 118 on koth nop hill (still too few points to get on it). ;redcode-94nop ;name frenzy v6 ;author Lukasz Grabun ;assert 1 org boot step equ 2936 start add #step+step,2 mov bomb, @1 mov bomb, @1 cl jmp -3, >-8 ;hit to start clear mov dbomb, >start-4 djn.f -1, >start-4 dbomb dat.f <5334, dbomb-start+7 bomb spl #0, #step for 83 dat 0, 0 rof boot mov bomb, 2000 for 7 mov {boot, ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:32:09 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fALNW9T01545 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:32:09 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA03288; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:30:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:30:26 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <2Ued5.6536$vW1.1064718@203.96.92.12> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: admin@xyrxu.nh.us Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: David De Souza - Usenet Administrator To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: NOTICE of Newsgroup Removal: rec.games.corewar X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Newsgroup rec.games.corewar slated for REMOVAL on 21 Nov 2001 22:11:32 GMT. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello my name is David De Souza, and I am writing to alert the regular readers of rec.games.corewar that it will be removed from Usenet on 21 Nov 2001 22:11:32 GMT. This action will be taken by all news servers, so clients are advised to update their readers accordingly. Thank you for your kind attention, David De Souza -- It promised, you talked, yet Felix never wistfully pulled in the lake. From corewar-l@koth.org Thu Nov 22 18:16:59 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAMGGtt03670 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 18:16:55 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAMGGsO16109 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 18:16:54 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA10700; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:15:08 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:15:08 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <003f01c1732b$96df7760$0b00000a@haskin.int> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: haskin@infinitecom.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: "Brian Haskin" To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: NOTICE of Newsgroup Removal: rec.games.corewar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Status: RO X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "David De Souza - Usenet Administrator" To: "Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L" Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 6:30 PM Subject: NOTICE of Newsgroup Removal: rec.games.corewar > Newsgroup rec.games.corewar slated for REMOVAL on 21 Nov 2001 22:11:32 GMT. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------- > > Hello my name is David De Souza, and I am writing to alert > the regular readers of rec.games.corewar that it will be removed > from Usenet on 21 Nov 2001 22:11:32 GMT. This action will be taken by all > news servers, so clients are advised to update their > readers accordingly. > > Thank you for your kind attention, > David De Souza > Could I inquire why this is being done and if there is any way for the users to appeal for a reversal of this decision? I realise that it is a fairly low volume group. But there are active contributors and it seems a fairly large number of lurkers. It also doesn't seem to have an inordinate amount of spam. In fact according to usenet info center r.g.c is tied with rec.games.abstract for the lowest cost ratio of all the rec.games newsgroups. While having less crossposting and more posts overall, meaning it has more unique content. Thank you for any help or explanation you can give, Brian Haskin haskin@ptway.com From corewar-l@koth.org Thu Nov 22 20:36:44 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAMIait10837 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 20:36:44 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAMIahO13836 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 20:36:43 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA11820; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:35:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:35:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <9tjcf0$g4f$1@kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: pak21@cam.ac.uk Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: pak21@cam.ac.uk (Philip Kendall) To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: NOTICE of Newsgroup Removal: rec.games.corewar X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: A In article <003f01c1732b$96df7760$0b00000a@haskin.int>, Brian Haskin wrote: > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "David De Souza - Usenet Administrator" >To: "Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L" >Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 6:30 PM >Subject: NOTICE of Newsgroup Removal: rec.games.corewar > > >> Newsgroup rec.games.corewar slated for REMOVAL on 21 Nov 2001 22:11:32 >GMT. [snip] >Could I inquire why this is being done and if there is any way for the users >to appeal for a reversal of this decision? Don't bother. This is completely fake. This message (or something like it) has gone to basically every group on Usenet. I haven't seen the original message as it was cancelled before it reached my news server, but I believe it had Followup-To: news.net-abuse.admin.e-mail[1], which would then cause /many/ people to post to that group, flooding it. Just ignore it all... [1] For those not aware, nanae is a group dedicated to stopping e-mail spammers. Hence the regulars there often attract this sort of attention from the spammers ;-( Phil -- Philip Kendall http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~pak21/ From corewar-l@koth.org Thu Nov 22 23:20:26 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAMLKQt16374 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:20:26 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAMLKPT06937 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:20:25 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA12912; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 16:18:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 16:18:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: jpihlaja@cc.helsinki.fi Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: M Joonas Pihlaja To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: NOTICE of Newsgroup Removal: rec.games.corewar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 22 Nov 2001, Philip Kendall wrote: > Don't bother. This is completely fake. This message (or something like > it) has gone to basically every group on Usenet. Thankyouthanktyouthankyou! The original message scared the living daylights out of me, and I logged on just now to create a Save r.g.c. petition. Phew... close call. (And really clever social engineering, btw.) Anyway, r.g.c. is a low-volume group and I for one am first in line to admit neglecting it. So, as a step in self-activation, here's something people might be interested in: http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/~jpihlaja/cw/maps/sorths.ps or http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/~jpihlaja/cw/maps/sorths.png (The .png version is *huge* so I recommend the .ps version and a postscript viewer with good zooming & panning abilities.) Basically, it's a 2D map of all -88 warriors on Koenigstuhl, with like warriors grouped together. It was generated using Teuvo Kohonen's SOM algorithm, which is an unsupervised learning algorithm to create maps of complicated data sets for visual inspection. More info on SOM is available at: http://www.cis.hut.fi/research/som-research/nnrc-programs.shtml [Thanks very much to Christoph Birk for access to the score files of Koenigstuhl: http://www.ociw.edu/~birk/COREWAR/ ] As a rough guide to the map, you have older and weaker warriors on the right side, with newer and more effective ones on the left. Light areas represent a high density of warriors with darker ones strange techniques that were tried but never really made it (i.e. not so many warriors.) >From the bottom right corner going clockwise across the edge you'll see: Mostly Old effective '88 dwarfs, Not so effective bomber-likes Old Spl 0 wipe/bomb -> dat clears, Older Vamps, Vampires, Older scanners, some spl bombers, and ending at gating scanners (left bottom corner), with effective Blur-likes clearly separated. Going up, we have bombers and bomber/scanners slightly inside of the edge, newer efficient *gating* dat stones above them, and the odd vampires (Sucker series). Moving along, we have stone/imps and the odd paper-likes (Proteus 3), finally ending at stone/papers at the upper left corner. Proceeding right along the top edge we have some serious paper above paper-launching imps, more exotic paper (Eloquent, Engine Number 9), and an abrupt change to some strange old bombers (Andromeda Strain, MEPHISTO). Then we get into huge lump of old warriors that I just don't recognise crowding the top right quadrant. I'm planning on training a similar map of the -94nop and OPEN hills on Koenigstuhl, but since both contain all the old warriors as well, I'm open to suggestions that would give us a better view of contemporary warriors (such as the top N percent of those hills or something). The map above shows quite clearly that there's a huge gap between old pre-imp ring warriors and those that follow. Enjoy, Joonas From corewar-l@koth.org Fri Nov 23 06:04:48 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAN44lt22583 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 06:04:47 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAN44lT20335 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 06:04:47 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA15369; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:02:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:02:52 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: paul_virak_khuong@yahoo.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: "Paul Khuong" To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: RE: new warrior MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Status: RO X-Status: > -----Original Message----- > From: corewar-l@koth.org [mailto:corewar-l@koth.org]On Behalf Of grabek > Sent: 21 novembre, 2001 16:34 > To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L > Subject: new warrior > > > howdy core warriors... > > here is something i programmed recently. it's a 50% stun bomber that > uses indirect addresing mode for bomb throwing. well, it's the best i > ever have made till now and it scores 118 on koth nop hill (still too few > points to get on it). > > ;redcode-94nop > ;name frenzy v6 > ;author Lukasz Grabun *&/$?? What is going on with every other guy form poland being named Lukasz? ;-) > ;assert 1 > org boot > > step equ 2936 > > start add #step+step,2 > mov bomb, @1 > mov bomb, @1 > cl jmp -3, >-8 ;hit to start clear > mov dbomb, >start-4 > djn.f -1, >start-4 > dbomb dat.f <5334, dbomb-start+7 > bomb spl #0, #step > > for 83 > dat 0, 0 > rof > > boot mov bomb, 2000 > for 7 > mov {boot, rof > jmp @boot, <-1000 > > if you happen to know of any improvements that can be made... well, > please let me know. > > p.s. pvk: thanks for your clear code, it seems to work perfectly. Well, actually, yes, there a few improvement that would be possible. The first is that you could make the step mod 4 ot 5(yup, see where the bombs hit), which is usually cosidered pretty good when you have a good step size. Then, the bomb engine. Being a nice not-so-quick bomber, you could switch to the Tornado engine, which basically is: add step, bomb3 mov bomb, *bomb3 mov bomb, @bomb3 bomb3 mov [x], @[y] jmp -4 It is only one line bigger, and you gain some speed... Your choice, in the end, but try it(oh, understand it first 8) After that, it's sort of my fault. As i said in the psot, my d-clear isn't the best one, mainly for one reason: the dat bomb. It is SO easy and costs nothing to use a better bomb, but i can't remember what that better bomb is! I THINK that it is dbomb dat.f >5335, [whatever], but i'm not sure. Look around in the archives of warriors, or for a post(probably by Paul Kline) which has that. Of course, it's not much, but it's free improvement, so.... Also, the clear you use is vulnerable to star-imps(mov.i #2667, *0, fe), because there is no non zero-dat right after the gate, and it could be made more resilient to stones at the expense of one line(i think that i've explained it real quick in an older post). Finally, you're not using an easy way to rack in wins: a QScan. Usually, you cna just paste the code in front of your boot code, but it's very interesting to try and understand how they work(especially for the more advanced ones, where it becomes very gratifying 8) That's all that i can say, oh, and, do try to build papers and scanners after that, they're a bit harder, but also very interesting. Paul Khuong --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.281 / Virus Database: 149 - Release Date: 01-09-18 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From corewar-l@koth.org Fri Nov 23 15:36:45 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fANDajt06177 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:36:45 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fANDaiO25826 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:36:44 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA19968; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 08:34:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 08:34:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: grabek@home.sweet.home Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: grabek To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: new warrior X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: On 22 Nov 2001 23:04:23 -0500, Paul Khuong wrote: first of all, thanks for hints. > > Then, the bomb engine. Being a nice not-so-quick bomber, you could switch to > the Tornado engine, which basically is: > > add step, bomb3 > mov bomb, *bomb3 > mov bomb, @bomb3 > bomb3 mov [x], @[y] > jmp -4 > > It is only one line bigger, and you gain some speed... Your choice, in the > end, but try it(oh, understand it first 8) i've done this already, but it seems that tornado version seems to score worse. don't know what's the reason for it, but my frenzy with q^4 scanning engine supplied scores 125 :) and really frenzy (tornado bomber) only 114. -- pozdrawiam, grabek From corewar-l@koth.org Sat Nov 24 01:53:36 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fANNrat19033 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 01:53:36 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fANNrZT16147 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 01:53:36 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA23956; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 18:49:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 18:49:26 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: jpihlaja@cc.helsinki.fi Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: M Joonas Pihlaja To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: new warrior MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: > howdy core warriors... Hi Lukasz, > here is something i programmed recently. it's a 50% stun bomber that > uses indirect addresing mode for bomb throwing. well, it's the best > i ever have made till now and it scores 118 on koth nop hill (still > too few points to get on it). You've picked up the game at an impressive speed. I guess jumping in the deep end is just the thing. :-) Frenzy v6 is picking up most of its points off the scanners on the hill, like a bomber should. The bad news is that against almost every stone/imp it loses heavily. This is probably due to the form of the bombing loop: start add #step+step,2 mov bomb, @1 mov bomb, @1 cl jmp -3, >-8 ;hit to start clear [..] bomb spl #0, #step You start it with only one process so if a dat bomb lands in it while you're bombing you're dead for sure. Another point is that the jmp line increments core near the warrior, making for a bigger target for scanners. (Does the >-8 serve a purpose? I couldn't tell from a quick glance.) Now if the stone/imps on the hill were mostly dat 0,0 stones, then you could get away with changing your loop to be self-splitting: bomb spl #0, 1 or something similar. When that kind of bomb hits a self-splitting loop like: loop: spl #0,0 [...] dat #ofs,>1 ; dat bombed mov ?X, ?-Y ; Y a small number. [...] ; ? almost any addressing mode. jmp loop then the loop will suicide, or at least be completely disabled pretty damn quick. Ouch! Roughly the same thing happens with dat #ofs,>-1 bombs as well -- Carbonite combines both forms with dat >-1,>1. [There was a big incentive for stones to move to real dat bombs since scanners and clears were engineered to be very resistant to dat 0,0 bombing. The clear in Recycled Bits being a real bugger, as well as scanners The Machine and myBlur2.] So where before a self-splitting loop was good for life-expectancy, real dat bombs are turning it into a liability. The fix: Use a bombing loop that won't die if it is dat bombed, but also without self-splitting. Aka an airbag. The idea is to use a small fixed number of processes that are scheduled to execute a loop exactly like a single process, and the clever bit is that the loop is created so that the processes can detect if the loop is dat bombed, in which case they fall through to the clear. I doubt I could explain the mechanics of it as lucidly as Paulsson in his posting of his bomber Airbag, so I won't even try. Also see Janeczek's Behemot bomber for this technique. You might want to work on mutation resistance for your d-clear, although late in the battle any opposing stone is hopefully stunned. OTOH, as you do only a fast mod-8 bombing run, you might not hit the opponent so it still has time to disable your clear. OTOH #2, adding redundacy will make it bigger reducing points gained from the bomber's main food supply. In any case the article on Newt in Core Warrior from a few years back has some good tips. Regards, Joonas From corewar-l@koth.org Sun Nov 25 13:44:25 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAPBiNA23904 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 13:44:24 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAOKawT16075 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 22:36:58 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA03613; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 15:35:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 15:35:05 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: grabek@home.sweet.home Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: grabek To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: new warrior X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: A On 23 Nov 2001, M Joonas Pihlaja wrote: > while you're bombing you're dead for sure. Another point is that > the jmp line increments core near the warrior, making for a > bigger target for scanners. (Does the >-8 serve a purpose? I > couldn't tell from a quick glance.) i thought it would be an imp gate (though as inefficient as one can be :) > The loop is started by jumping to the spl line and after a while > starts executing backwards. I've added a djn stream that is the reason why i didnt put spl 0 before main loop is that i wanted it to be _quick_. having more proceses makes one harder to kill, but slows the warrior down. i wanted quick bombing raid and then clear. i managed to put my warrior on nop hill; however i dont belive if it will stay there for long. and at last but not at least: thank you. > Regards, > > Joonas -- pozdrawiam, grabek From corewar-l@koth.org Sun Nov 25 20:11:22 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAPIBLA02811 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 20:11:21 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAPIBKO24664 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 20:11:20 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA12332; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 13:09:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 13:09:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: paul_virak_khuong@yahoo.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: "Paul Khuong" To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: RE: new warrior MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Status: RO X-Status: > -----Original Message----- > From: corewar-l@koth.org [mailto:corewar-l@koth.org]On Behalf Of grabek > Sent: 24 novembre, 2001 15:35 > To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L > Subject: Re: new warrior > > On 23 Nov 2001, M Joonas Pihlaja wrote: > [snip] > > The loop is started by jumping to the spl line and after a while > > starts executing backwards. I've added a djn stream that is > > the reason why i didnt put spl 0 before main loop is that i > wanted it to be _quick_. having more proceses makes one harder to > kill, but slows the warrior down. i wanted quick bombing raid and then > clear. Erhm... Not really You don't jump to the SPL. So, you only lose 1/x of the speed, where x is the number of process. AND, that x is going to grow at a pretty good rate, so that the speed loss isn't really important. > i managed to put my warrior on nop hill; however i dont belive > if it will stay there for long. Still, well done! _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From corewar-l@koth.org Sun Nov 25 23:26:11 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAPLQBA03859 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 23:26:11 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAPLQAT28430 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 23:26:10 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA13743; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:24:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:24:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: jpihlaja@cc.helsinki.fi Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: M Joonas Pihlaja To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: new warrior MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: On Sat, 24 Nov 2001, grabek wrote: > the reason why i didnt put spl 0 before main loop is that i > wanted it to be _quick_. having more proceses makes one harder to > kill, but slows the warrior down. i wanted quick bombing raid and then > clear. Yeah, OK. (Though as pvk pointed out the speed penalty isn't all that bad and reduces as time goes on.) Anyway, I tested the airbag hypothesis, and while it does seem to help (120 points vs. 118 unmodified), it doesn't solve the problem with stone/imps (except Blacken). Here's the code: ;redcode-94nop ;name airbag frenzy ;author Lukasz Grabun ;strategy testing the airbag hypothesis (mjp) ;assert 1 gate equ (top-4) step equ 2936 ; 2930 top add #2*step,ptr mov stun,@ptr ptr mov }ck,@ck-1 jmz.a top,{ck ck stun spl #0,step mov bmb,>gate djn.f -1,>gate bmb dat <-5,2-gate z for MAXLENGTH-CURLINE-7 dat 0,0 rof go spl 2 psrc spl 2,top+10 pdest spl 1,top+10+2000 mov pdest,#5 jmp top+2001 end go I'm not exactly sure what the problem is, except that the spl #0 bomb isn't stunning the opponent's components for long enough or well enough. Consider the difference to Behemot's bombs: spl #2,-X mov @0,}-1 and jmp X ; jump to a spl/mov bomb. If the jmp falls in a loop (even on the last instruction, or a top spl #0 of a stone), then the opponent should be stunned effectively quite soon. This works for basically any live processes, even if they aren't executed very often. Ditto for the spl/mov pair, assuming it isn't mangled by the loop. A single spl #0 stun bomb is really only effective when it lands *within* a frequently executed loop. Landing on the looping instruction may work, but may cause the opponent to move to its second phase, without really hampering it. Landing on a leading spl instruction of a stone is useless unless it contains important data, and even then the effect is unpredictable. Even the benign looking mov.i #0,1 bomb used by Recount is probably more effective in stunning a stone, since it does its thing regardless of where it lands in the stone's code. Something just occured to me about the airbag: since only the looping instruction is unprotected from dat bombing, only 3/4 of the loop is protected. In a tornado-like bomber, or a bomber with a bigger payload, it would be better protected. Hm... time to have a better look at what Behemot does. > i managed to put my warrior on nop hill; however i dont belive > if it will stay there for long. Congratulations! (It's a huge rush, isn't it? My first warrior on -94 had a short and euphoric life too. :) ) Joonas From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Nov 26 05:23:45 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAQ3NjA31561 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 05:23:45 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAQ3NiO01987 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 05:23:44 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA16135; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 22:20:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 22:20:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: jpihlaja@cc.helsinki.fi Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: M Joonas Pihlaja To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: RE: new warrior MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 25 Nov 2001, Paul Khuong wrote: [snip idea about scanning for stone bombs and falling through to a d-clear if found.] > This way, when we encounter stones, we will probably switch > to the clear faster, because the jmz should quickly find a > non b-zero cell, we will work just as well VS scanners, BUT > the switch to the d-clear will also be made VS papers, which > isn't exactly the best move. That's a good idea and from the results on the hill, it seems to work quite well against stones. Unfortunately the losses against paper, Revival Fire, and HSA x, drop the score to 109. :-/ I attached the code to the bottom. > the code would look like: [snip] > djn.f -1,>gate > bmb dat <-5,2-gate > ; that gate is useless ;-) make it something better > against 3 pt-imps... If you're referring to the article in CW by Kline that says >5335 is the best thing since fried chicken, then sorry to say that's a myth. In his tests he used the DieHard imp launcher which creates malformed imp rings with odd process scheduling. The form of the imp is the only reason >5335 works like magic in d-clears. Against real spirals there's not a huge difference between dat 0,X and any other d-clear wipe bomb. (Prefer <2667 myself, if only for the psychological factor.) [snip airbag protects (n-1)/n lines of the loop.] > IMHO, you start from a bad premise: It is not the fraction of > the program that's protected that is important, but rather > the ABSOLUTE number of vulnerable lines that is. Oh... of course you're right, but I wasn't disputing that. Just pointing out that airbags might make bigger loops worthwhile. [snip] > OT Trivia:WHat's the samllest step-4 stone using ONLY branching, jmp and > mov? No idea... Was it you that tried creating a .8c bomber a few years back, without an ADD, only it was kind of clear? If not, then is it something similar? Joonas ;redcode-94nop ;name scan frenzy ;strategy test pvk's b-scanning hypothesis ;author Lukasz Grabun ;assert 1 gate equ (top-4) step equ 2936 top add #2*step,ptr mov stun,@ptr ptr mov stun,*1 jmz.b top,{bmb stun spl #step,0 mov bmb,>gate djn.f -1,>gate bmb dat 499,2-gate z for MAXLENGTH-CURLINE-9 dat 0,0 rof go mov bmb,top+2000+8 z for 7 mov {go,; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 05:23:48 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAQ3NlO07108 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 05:23:47 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA16160; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 22:22:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 22:22:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: paul_virak_khuong@yahoo.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: "Paul Khuong" To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: RE: new warrior MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Status: RO X-Status: > -----Original Message----- > From: corewar-l@koth.org [mailto:corewar-l@koth.org]On Behalf Of M > Joonas Pihlaja > Sent: 25 novembre, 2001 16:24 > To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L > Subject: Re: new warrior > > > > On Sat, 24 Nov 2001, grabek wrote: > > > the reason why i didnt put spl 0 before main loop is that i > > wanted it to be _quick_. having more proceses makes one harder to > > kill, but slows the warrior down. i wanted quick bombing raid and then > > clear. > > Yeah, OK. (Though as pvk pointed out the speed penalty isn't all > that bad and reduces as time goes on.) > > Anyway, I tested the airbag hypothesis, and while it does seem to > help (120 points vs. 118 unmodified), it doesn't solve the > problem with stone/imps (except Blacken). Here's the code: [snip] > I'm not exactly sure what the problem is, except that the spl #0 > bomb isn't stunning the opponent's components for long enough or > well enough. Consider the difference to Behemot's bombs: > > spl #2,-X > mov @0,}-1 > and > jmp X ; jump to a spl/mov bomb. > > If the jmp falls in a loop (even on the last instruction, or a > top spl #0 of a stone), then the opponent should be stunned > effectively quite soon. This works for basically any live > processes, even if they aren't executed very often. Ditto for > the spl/mov pair, assuming it isn't mangled by the loop. > > A single spl #0 stun bomb is really only effective when it lands > *within* a frequently executed loop. Landing on the looping > instruction may work, but may cause the opponent to move to its > second phase, without really hampering it. Landing on a leading > spl instruction of a stone is useless unless it contains > important data, and even then the effect is unpredictable. > > Even the benign looking mov.i #0,1 bomb used by Recount is > probably more effective in stunning a stone, since it does its > thing regardless of where it lands in the stone's code. So, we actually have two problems here: The single spl bomb is near worthless VS stones or papers, and as good as anything VS scanners, right? The second would be the warrior getting reamed by other stones. The first problem probably has to be solved using a more complex bomb, probably like spl/mov, which tends to be more effective than spl/jmp. Unfortunately, it would mean that the warrior gets bigger, but does not disrupt scanners any better. Any better idea? The second problem could be solved using something a BIT like airbag, though not exactly. Make sure that the bombs have 0 b-fields(like spl #whatever, 0), and use a jmz.b start, gate djn.f -1,>gate bmb dat <-5,2-gate ; that gate is useless ;-) make it something better against 3 pt-imps... > Something just occured to me about the airbag: since only the > looping instruction is unprotected from dat bombing, only 3/4 of > the loop is protected. In a tornado-like bomber, or a bomber > with a bigger payload, it would be better protected. Hm... time > to have a better look at what Behemot does. IMHO, you start from a bad premise: It is not the fraction of the program that's protected that is important, but rather the ABSOLUTE number of vulnerable lines that is. The stone has as much chances of hitting that one vulnerable line, regardless of the number of lines in the loop. > > i managed to put my warrior on nop hill; however i dont belive > > if it will stay there for long. > > Congratulations! (It's a huge rush, isn't it? My first warrior > on -94 had a short and euphoric life too. :) ) Well, it's pretty good that he did it on his own too! My was nPaper(and it's still the only one bc i couldn't find any time after that)... REALLY, unless you count the one time someone ;killed his warrior ^_^ OT Trivia:WHat's the samllest step-4 stone using ONLY branching, jmp and mov? _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Nov 26 06:01:50 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAQ41oA05641 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 06:01:50 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAQ41mO09090 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 06:01:48 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA16532; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 22:59:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 22:59:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <20011126034335.37951.qmail@web11603.mail.yahoo.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: paul_virak_khuong@yahoo.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Paul-V Khuong To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: RE: new warrior MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: A --- M Joonas Pihlaja wrote: > > On Sun, 25 Nov 2001, Paul Khuong wrote: > > [snip idea about scanning for stone bombs and > falling through to > a d-clear if found.] > > > This way, when we encounter stones, we will > probably switch > > to the clear faster, because the jmz should > quickly find a > > non b-zero cell, we will work just as well VS > scanners, BUT > > the switch to the d-clear will also be made VS > papers, which > > isn't exactly the best move. > > That's a good idea and from the results on the hill, > it seems to > work quite well against stones. Unfortunately the > losses against > paper, Revival Fire, and HSA x, drop the score to > 109. :-/ I > attached the code to the bottom. DROPPED? How well did frenzy do before adding the b-scan VS papers? If you look at the nop hill, you'll see a warrior by me as the 21st warrior^_^ It uses the same b-scan idea, but in a "normal" mov },{ 3-line stone. To help VS papers, instead of only going to the d-clear, it also launches an imp. It makes the warrior more complex, but it might be interesting to try it. BTW, i don't know why it suckes so much...Might be the qs/a bug introduced by adding the qs. I'll see what a spl/dat clear does tomorrow 8) [snip...d-clear bombs work all the same- NOT FAIR] > [snip airbag protects (n-1)/n lines of the loop.] > > > IMHO, you start from a bad premise: It is not the > fraction of > > the program that's protected that is important, > but rather > > the ABSOLUTE number of vulnerable lines that is. > > Oh... of course you're right, but I wasn't disputing > that. Just > pointing out that airbags might make bigger loops > worthwhile. That's what i mean:it doesn't make it better to have a bigger loop, except if you want a quick switch to the second component in a special case where the chances of the loop getting bombed are high. > [snip] > > OT Trivia:WHat's the samllest step-4 stone using > ONLY branching, jmp and > > mov? > > No idea... Was it you that tried creating a .8c > bomber a few > years back, without an ADD, only it was kind of > clear? If not, > then is it something similar? i don't know what you're referring to, but it IS step 4, but linearly so. It's still better than the basic dwarf! ^_^ PS, do you think that i can include redcode as a language that i ahve mastered in an application for what is basically a nerds' summer camp? ^_^ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Nov 26 17:15:23 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAQFFNA03020 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 17:15:23 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAQFFMT22775 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 17:15:22 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA21810; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:13:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:13:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200111260500.AAA28791@gevjon.ttsg.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: koth@koth.org Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Koth To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - Standard 11/26/01 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Weekly Status on 11/26/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html sleep 180 Current Status of the KOTH.ORG Standard KotH CoreWar Hill : Last battle concluded at : Tue Nov 20 05:07:52 EST 2001 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 34/ 20/ 46 Freight Train David Moore 148 79 2 33/ 21/ 47 sIMPly.Red v0.95 Leonardo Humberto 145 36 3 32/ 20/ 48 Test Alexander (Sasha) Wa 145 18 4 31/ 21/ 48 Guardian Ian Oversby 142 78 5 33/ 28/ 40 vala John Metcalf 138 1 6 37/ 39/ 24 Stasis David Moore 136 186 7 36/ 37/ 28 PacMan David Moore 135 108 8 39/ 44/ 16 Foggy Swamp Beppe Bezzi 134 75 9 39/ 44/ 17 Blur '88 Anton Marsden 134 116 10 24/ 16/ 60 EV Paper John K Wilkinson 132 92 11 25/ 19/ 56 Jinglo John Metcalf 132 3 12 27/ 22/ 51 Shish-Ka-Bob Ben Ford 131 34 13 26/ 20/ 54 Evoltmp 88 John K W 131 129 14 25/ 19/ 56 Test I Ian Oversby 131 135 15 34/ 38/ 28 Tangle Trap David Moore 130 152 16 36/ 42/ 22 Beholder's Eye V1.7 W. Mintardjo 129 354 17 37/ 47/ 16 Iron Gate Wayne Sheppard 128 404 18 29/ 31/ 40 Frog Sticker P.Kline 128 28 19 37/ 48/ 15 ig Wayne Sheppard 126 6 20 14/ 3/ 83 ]enigma[ Michal Janeczek 124 7 21 15/ 66/ 19 B7 M.S.A. 64 0 From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Nov 26 17:17:07 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAQFH7A21397 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 17:17:07 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAQFH6O27551 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 17:17:06 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA21891; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:15:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:15:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200111260500.AAA28795@gevjon.ttsg.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: koth@koth.org Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Koth To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - MultiWarrior 94 11/26/01 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Weekly Status on 11/26/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html sleep 180 Current Status of the KOTH.ORG Multiwarrior 94 CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Fri Nov 16 05:38:10 EST 2001 # Name Author Score Age 1 D-clearM Ken Espiritu 44 84 2 fclear Brian Haskin 31 68 3 test John Metcalf 31 12 4 Xord Monominer XOSC:01 Gino Oblena 27 23 5 8thTest Gino Oblena 24 15 6 Pitbull Christian Schmidt 23 40 7 Carrot Grater v1.1 Brant D. Thomsen 21 2 8 Her Majesty P.Kline 20 103 9 QuiVa John Metcalf 13 177 10 sptst (4D-p) Stefan Foerster 11 1 11 Il est un dieu qui rit Thomas Baruchel ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 17:18:23 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAQFINT23117 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 17:18:23 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA21938; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:16:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:16:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200111260500.AAA28799@gevjon.ttsg.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: koth@koth.org Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Koth To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - ICWS Experimental 94 11/26/01 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Weekly Status on 11/26/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html sleep 180 Current Status of the KOTH.ORG ICWS Experimental 94 CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Sat Nov 24 11:00:53 EST 2001 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 55/ 33/ 12 Fire and Ice II David Moore 176 1 2 40/ 34/ 26 Black Moods Ian Oversby 145 97 3 36/ 31/ 33 Controlled Aggression Ian Oversby 141 101 4 32/ 24/ 44 KAT v5 Dave Hillis 140 33 5 31/ 26/ 43 Damage Inflicted Robert Macrae 136 40 6 36/ 36/ 29 Ogre Christian Schmidt 136 49 7 22/ 8/ 70 Evol Cap 4 X John Wilkinson 135 170 8 27/ 19/ 55 Katafutr Michal Janeczek 134 41 9 20/ 10/ 70 Denial David Moore 131 42 10 38/ 45/ 17 Greetings From Asbury Par JKW 130 61 11 23/ 17/ 60 Kin John Metcalf 128 9 12 29/ 36/ 35 Big I.F.F.S. Dave Hillis 123 30 13 23/ 23/ 54 Venom v0.2b Christian Schmidt 122 123 14 16/ 10/ 75 Evolve X v4.0 John Wilkinson 122 118 15 16/ 10/ 74 Black Box v1.1 JKW 122 64 16 28/ 35/ 37 test CS 121 58 17 30/ 46/ 24 Pagan John K W 114 155 18 17/ 26/ 58 Purple v0.1 Christian Schmidt 108 122 19 19/ 31/ 50 Disaster Area 2.8 Stefan Foerster 107 28 20 26/ 47/ 27 Sand-Crawler John Metcalf 105 7 21 1/ 4/ 0 test David Moore 4 2 From corewar-l@koth.org Tue Nov 27 16:31:58 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAREVwA29223 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:31:58 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAREVvT14399 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:31:57 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA02524; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:30:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:30:14 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: grabek@home.sweet.home Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: grabek To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: new warrior X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: On 25 Nov 2001 16:25:46 -0500, M Joonas Pihlaja wrote: > gate equ (top-4) > step equ 2936 ; 2930 > > top > add #2*step,ptr > mov stun,@ptr > ptr mov }ck,@ck-1 > jmz.a top,{ck > ck stun spl #0,step > mov bmb,>gate > djn.f -1,>gate > bmb dat <-5,2-gate > > > z for MAXLENGTH-CURLINE-7 > dat 0,0 > rof > go spl 2 > psrc spl 2,top+10 > pdest spl 1,top+10+2000 > mov mov djn >pdest,#5 > jmp top+2001 > end go first of all, i'd like to thank you both. the discussion that had been raised here helped me a lot; currently i'm working on multiple frenzy with airbag checking... don't know yet what it is going to be :) the second matter: i executed airbag frenzy code; it seems to work properly, but there's one thing i just cant get along with. there're four paralleral (?), independent processes executing the code. in the main loop there's add #2*step, somewhere instruction. it seems that it is executed 4 times, so the bomb's destination is, well, altered. dont know whether im expressing myself in enough clear way. :) -- pozdrawiam, grabek From corewar-l@koth.org Tue Nov 27 18:09:47 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fARG9kA02345 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 18:09:46 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fARG9jT23246 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 18:09:45 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA03146; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 11:07:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 11:07:52 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: jpihlaja@cc.helsinki.fi Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: M Joonas Pihlaja To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: -94nop desperately needs stone/paper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Only two papers, a heap of scanners, and load of stone/imps. The time is ripe for stone/anti-imp-paper. Last person to make a submission takes the imps out for dinner. (And if Gunnell will supply us with another batch of killer scanners, in your own time, please. ;-) ) Joonas From corewar-l@koth.org Tue Nov 27 18:11:04 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fARGB3A12165 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 18:11:03 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fARGB2O08131 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 18:11:03 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA03170; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 11:09:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 11:09:19 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: jpihlaja@cc.helsinki.fi Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: M Joonas Pihlaja To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: RE: new warrior MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 25 Nov 2001, Paul-V Khuong wrote: [snip the b-scanning version score] > DROPPED? > > How well did frenzy do before adding the b-scan VS > papers? Here are the results for all four versions. Speculation on the on-hill warriors below. frenzy v6 splitting airbag scan - Paper-likes Inky 28-170-52 37-145-68 39-151-60 16-217-17 nPaper II 36-168-46 21-142-87 29-152-69 7-214-29 The Phantom Men 8-105-137 4- 91-155 4- 85-161 6-116-128 No surprises here, except the scarsity of paper on the hill. I'm not sure if Inky really is a paper though as on the hill it scores much too high for one. - Stone/imp Quicksilver 65-152-33 33-141-76 64-164-22 58-182-10 Son of Vain 54-134-62 12-131-107 59-120-71 78-108-64 Olivia 61-125-64 18- 89-143 67- 96-87 71-137-42 Uninvited 63-144-43 35- 99-116 80-119-51 84-143-23 Qtest 41-159-50 41- 98-111 37-125-88 44-165-41 AxID Burn 49-152-49 25-134-91 63-138-49 61-152-37 Blacken 64-114-72 56- 70-124 91- 69-90 103-104-43 I put Qtest in with the stone/imps as it scores most like one against the frenzies. Could actually be a heavy stone -> paper, as the airbag and b-scanning versions do worse than the original, and the splitting version mostly ties. The splitting version does manage to convert many losses into ties, but unfortunately does the same to wins. From the number of losses incurred, I'm guessing Olivia, AxID Burn, and Uninvited use real dat bombs (Son of Vain and Quicksilver are known to). Blacken and Qtest probably don't. The splitting version had a djn-stream, so if there are lots of 1,1s in some warrior this would show up as reduced wins. Mostly the airbag converts losses into wins, sometimes ties. The b-scanning version clearly gets the most wins. A bit odd that these stone-fortified versions lose more heavily to Quicksilver and Qtest than the original - Bomber Fire and Ice II 64-141-45 73-158-19 Behemot 102-129-19 101-106-43 76-137-37 87-145-18 - Unknown Revival Fire 87- 81-82 42-107-101 87- 85-78 71-150-29 Keyser Soze 84- 84-82 73- 79-98 87-101-62 98-123-29 Revival Fire is probably an airbagged and turbo-charged Recount. Not sure about Keyser Soze. Maybe a bomber or bomber/scanner of some sort. - Scanner Hazy Lazy 93-107-50 83-128-39 96-115-39 87-131-32 HSA x 112- 91-47 120- 95-35 106-110-34 98-123-29 Test S M1 128- 70-52 114- 85-51 136- 69-45 127- 89-34 KenshinX test13 127- 89-34 130- 83-37 124- 87-39 119- 86-45 Kenshin test 21 131- 77-42 127- 84-39 135- 76-39 144- 77-29 Eraser II 146- 72-32 141- 71-38 140- 74-36 111- 95-44 Hazy Lazy is one mean scanner. Look at those wins!! Eraser II apparently is colouring core and triggering the scanning version's fall to d-clear early. Somebody send in a bomb dodger and tell the rest of us. HSA x is a bit strange -- look at the difference in wins it gets from the scanning version vs. the original. It too might be colouring core, but for a HSA that sounds strange. In that case it should be tricked into wiping the d-clear's stream quite quickly, unless it finds the bomber body first (which could be the case if it uses a step <= 10 or so). - One-shot G3 126- 98-26 135- 93-22 If it's anything like G2 (I haven't tested), we're most likely hitting the clear while he's scanning. The djn stream in the splitting version is getting us more wins. > If you look at the nop hill, you'll see a warrior by > me as the 21st warrior^_^ It uses the same b-scan > idea, but in a "normal" mov },{ 3-line stone. To help > VS papers, instead of only going to the d-clear, it > also launches an imp. OK, so do you have something like ??? {Y,{Y ; what's here? mov X},{Y jmz.b -2,{Y ; scan every fourth location ; go launch imp / d-clear. [Snipped too much: is it a good idea to add redcode as a...] > language that i ahve mastered in an application for > what is basically a nerds' summer camp? ^_^ Absolutely! See if you can get some of the other attendants to give Core War a shot. Maybe organise a mini-tournament or something. You'd have to be judge/organiser and so wouldn't be allowed to enter, but you could give a few lectures on core war strategy / history. But then I've never been to a summer camp and have no idea what it actually is, so add grains of salt etc. What is it people do at summer camp anyway? Joonas From corewar-l@koth.org Wed Nov 28 01:31:30 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fARNVTA01419 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 01:31:29 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fARNVSO28693 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 01:31:29 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA06226; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 18:29:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 18:29:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: mooredav@mac.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: David Matthew Moore To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Fire and Ice II X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: M Joonas Pihlaja wrote: > > The time is ripe for stone/anti-imp-paper. (And if Gunnell will > supply us with another batch of killer scanners, in your own > time, please. ;-) ) I've got another idea. Let's show some more love to the -94x big hill. Pizza hills have been down for ages, so play the hill with better parameters. Mod-anything step sizes! More time for brainy pspace strategies! Best of all, wimps can no longer hide behind an aggressive quickscan! Let me start by offering Fire and Ice II. It's a big hill pspacer that switches between two strategies. First is a stone. Borrowing from a hint posted to r.g.c, it bombs with: mov -2019, 1 Another bomb is placed at -2019. When run, this expands to: mov -2019, 1 mov -2019, 1 dat 0, 0 After every 3rd cell has been bombed, then a dclear cleans up the rest. The other half of Fire and Ice II is an f-scanner. To explain where this scanner came from, let's revisit KoFoCoTo. In round 3 of the koth.org tournament, we jabbed at an unpublished "black" warrior on its own special hill. We could see score results, but not source code. I hypothesized that Black Box contained a silk of the form: spl @0, }step mov }-1, >-1 I sent a warrior that tested for instructions like "spl @x, }y". If it found any, then it would launch paper to tie the game; otherwise, it would simply die. The results for "spl @, }" were all ties. In this way, you can test for the precense or absence of anything. Yes or No. The next step was to determine the distance between copies of the silk. Q: Is it less than 10000 or more? A: less Q: Is it less than 5000 or more? A: less Q: Is it less than 2500 or more? A: more .. log_2 55440 = 15 questions. It took 15 submissions to determine the silk copy distance. My entry, The Truth Is Out There, could bomb all of the copies once it found the first one. In retrospect, there's an easier way to do this. Let the scanner read the step size during the battle. Fire and Ice II scans for the first instruction in any program it finds. If that instruction is an imp or a silk, then it points to the next copy. F&I2 can folow the trail and SPL carpet all of the imps and silks very quickly. A brainwash trap is added at the end of each spl carpet: spl #0, 0 spl #0, 0 stp.ab >0, #0 The job is finished with a simple core clear: mov bomb, >gate jmp -1, {gate If an imp of the form "mov.i #x, step" reaches the gate, then the first line will bomb two imps at once. As long as it runs at least one time out of two, then it is a 100% effective gate (although this scanner doesn't need the gate much). Here's the rest: ;redcode-94x ;name Fire and Ice II ;author David Moore ;strategy anti-imp scanner or stone with airbag ;assert CORESIZE==55440 org start ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; ; ; ; airbag stone + dclear ; ; ; ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; dDist equ (dBoot+43990) dGate equ -5 dStep equ 53421 ;dStep % 3 == 0 dbPos equ 11 dBoot spl dBoot2, >dDist+(dPtr-dTop)+dStep*1030 spl 1, >dDist+(dPtr-dTop)+dStep*1033 mov.i {0, #0 mov {dSpl, dBoot2 dAway1 dat dDist+1, dDist+(dLast-dTop)+1 dat 0, 0 dat 0, 0 dDat dat <27721, 5-dGate dSpl spl #dLast+1, {dSpl+dGate+2 mov dSpl+dGate+1, >dSpl+dGate djn.f -1, >dSpl+dGate dTop add.ab #dStep*2, dPtr mov >2, @dPtr dPtr mov <1, *(dStep*2) jmn.b dTop, dTop+dbPos dLast jmp dPtr+dStep, dAway1, sTop jmn.f -1, @sTop mov sWash, >sTop sGate slt.ab @sI1, #27 sI3 jmn.f sPtr, @sI2 sMain add.a #sStep-1, sPtr sStart jmz.f -1, }sPtr mov.a sPtr, @sI1 jmn.a sGate, *sI3 sSpl spl #0, 0 mov 2, >sGate djn.f -1, {sGate sBP dat sPtr, 3-sGate sWash stp.ab >0, #0 dat 0, 0 sBoot mov }sBP, >sAway mov }sBP, >sAway mov }sBP, >sAway mov }sBP, >sAway mov }sBP, >sAway djn sBoot, #4 spl *sAway, >sBoot sAway mod.f #sDist+(sStart-sPtr), #sDist dat 0, 0 end From corewar-l@koth.org Wed Nov 28 02:09:10 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAS099A27423 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 02:09:10 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAS098T21705 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 02:09:08 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA06519; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 19:07:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 19:07:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: paul_virak_khuong@yahoo.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: "Paul Khuong" To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: RE: new warrior MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Status: RO X-Status: > -----Original Message----- > From: corewar-l@koth.org [mailto:corewar-l@koth.org]On Behalf Of M > Joonas Pihlaja > Sent: 27 novembre, 2001 11:09 > To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L > Subject: RE: new warrior > > > > On Sun, 25 Nov 2001, Paul-V Khuong wrote: > > [snip the b-scanning version score] > > DROPPED? > > > > How well did frenzy do before adding the b-scan VS > > papers? > > Here are the results for all four versions. Speculation on the > on-hill warriors below. I'll reply to the analysis inline, because i don't reallt want to recap everything 8) > frenzy v6 splitting airbag scan > - Paper-likes > Inky 28-170-52 37-145-68 39-151-60 16-217-17 > nPaper II 36-168-46 21-142-87 29-152-69 7-214-29 > The Phantom Men 8-105-137 4- 91-155 4- 85-161 6-116-128 > > No surprises here, except the scarsity of paper on the hill. > I'm not sure if Inky really is a paper though as on the hill it > scores much too high for one. Re Inky's type: Well, it's one weird warrior:reams HSA, but loses a lot VS Lazy Hazy. So, it could be a very aggressive paper, bombing/coreclearing a lot. However, Hazy Lazy also shows weird scores for a scanner, so... [snip] > Mostly the airbag converts losses into wins, sometimes ties. > The b-scanning version clearly gets the most wins. A bit odd > that these stone-fortified versions lose more heavily to > Quicksilver and Qtest than the original > > - Bomber > Fire and Ice II 64-141-45 73-158-19 > Behemot 102-129-19 101-106-43 76-137-37 87-145-18 > > - Unknown > Revival Fire 87- 81-82 42-107-101 87- 85-78 71-150-29 > Keyser Soze 84- 84-82 73- 79-98 87-101-62 98-123-29 > > Revival Fire is probably an airbagged and turbo-charged Recount. > Not sure about Keyser Soze. Maybe a bomber or bomber/scanner of > some sort. > > - Scanner > Hazy Lazy 93-107-50 83-128-39 96-115-39 87-131-32 > HSA x 112- 91-47 120- 95-35 106-110-34 98-123-29 > Test S M1 128- 70-52 114- 85-51 136- 69-45 127- 89-34 > KenshinX test13 127- 89-34 130- 83-37 124- 87-39 119- 86-45 > Kenshin test 21 131- 77-42 127- 84-39 135- 76-39 144- 77-29 > Eraser II 146- 72-32 141- 71-38 140- 74-36 111- 95-44 > > Hazy Lazy is one mean scanner. Look at those wins!! Hazy lazy probably is NOT a scanner > Eraser II apparently is colouring core and triggering the > scanning version's fall to d-clear early. Somebody send in a > bomb dodger and tell the rest of us. I'll do so in the weekend if you don't ahve the time to launch a test with clisson ;-) > > > If you look at the nop hill, you'll see a warrior by > > me as the 21st warrior^_^ It uses the same b-scan > > idea, but in a "normal" mov },{ 3-line stone. To help > > VS papers, instead of only going to the d-clear, it > > also launches an imp. > > OK, so do you have something like > > ??? {Y,{Y ; what's here? > mov X},{Y > jmz.b -2,{Y ; scan every fourth location > ; go launch imp / d-clear. Erhm..Wait, this has no relation with the no-add step 4 stone ;-) I think it's time i post it, anyway, so: start mov @0, <1 mov {-50, <3999;3998 might be better..not sure djn.f -2, @-2 end start > [Snipped too much: is it a good idea to add redcode as > a...] > > language that i ahve mastered in an application for > > what is basically a nerds' summer camp? ^_^ > > Absolutely! See if you can get some of the other attendants to > give Core War a shot. Maybe organise a mini-tournament or > something. You'd have to be judge/organiser and so wouldn't be > allowed to enter, but you could give a few lectures on core war > strategy / history. > > But then I've never been to a summer camp and have no idea what > it actually is, so add grains of salt etc. What is it people do > at summer camp anyway? You know, i have NO idea ^_^ It's gonna be my first time (thank god i was never sent away to summer camp before), but i guess you could go to www.shad.ca and take a look. Finally, and most important, it IS possible to run the b-scan AND airbag ^_^ The problem:somewhat bigger footprint 8( gate equ (top-4) step equ 2936 ; 2930 ptr dat.f x, x+step [something that point to a non a-zero cell] bmb spl #z,0 [space] top add.f step, ptr ;3/4 gate ;-) mov >ck, }ptr ; " mov ptr ; " ck jmz.b top, {bmb step spl #step*2-1, step*2-1 mov db, >gate djn.f -1, >gate db dat.f spl/dat stone-resistant clear later. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From corewar-l@koth.org Wed Nov 28 03:36:40 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAS1aOA31669 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 03:36:24 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAS1aOT24925 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 03:36:24 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA07233; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 20:33:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 20:33:06 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <9u1ck1$mcb$1@kenny.mimuw.edu.pl> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: arekp@ds2.uw.edu.pl Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Arek Paterek To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Good clear X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Hi, I need a short SPL/DAT clear that transforms into a gate. It doesn't need be to be fast, but should be resistant to imps. The best would be, if it starts with SPL #16, #16 . Could You help me with it? -- Arek Paterek From corewar-l@koth.org Wed Nov 28 19:31:58 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fASHVvA16329 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:31:57 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fASHVuO23697 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:31:57 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA14334; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:29:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:29:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: jpihlaja@cc.helsinki.fi Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: M Joonas Pihlaja To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: new warrior Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 27 Nov 2001, grabek wrote: [snip some code] > the second matter: i executed airbag frenzy code; it seems to > work properly, but there's one thing i just cant get along with. > there're four paralleral (?), independent processes executing the > code. in the main loop there's add #2*step, somewhere instruction. > it seems that it is executed 4 times, so the bomb's destination is, > well, altered. Hmm... maybe I posted a buggy version. It's supposed to boot five processes so that they execute the loop just as if there was only one process. spl 2 ;create 5 parallel processes spl 2 spl 1, X djn >-1, #5 ; boot 4 procs, last one falls thru to jmp jmp X+1 ; boot final proc. The djn line boots four processes to X, X+1, X+2, X+3 like this: 1 add 2 mov 3 mov 4 jmz Then the loop executes once and a fifth process (left behind at the jmp X+1 line) is booted to the first mov line: 4 add 1 5 mov 2 mov 3 jmz When these execute in order you should get add-mov-mov-jmz-add-mov-mov-jmz- ... See also Paulsson's post of myBlur2. Incidentally, Behemot uses a neat way of booting the processes: It boots one extra line at the top of the warrior which is booted to address X, and then feeds N+1 parallel processes to jmp >ptr_to_X to get processes at X, X+1, ..., X+N. The instruction at X+N is a branch to X+1, so after the processes have executed once, we have the required scheduling for the processes. Also, the instruction at X is only executed once, so it uses a mov {0,0 instruction to erase itself with a dat 0,0. Cool! Joonas From corewar-l@koth.org Thu Nov 29 00:28:10 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fASMS9A22521 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 00:28:09 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fASMS8O15546 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 00:28:08 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA16367; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:26:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:26:31 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200111281849.fASIn7x01528@andromeda.ociw.edu> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: birk@andromeda.ociw.edu Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: birk@andromeda.ociw.edu To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Koenigstuhl News X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Congratulations to David Moore! His program 'Fire and Ice II' ist the new #1 of the X-Koenigstuhl. Christoph (http://www.ociw.edu/~birk/COREWAR/koenigstuhl.html) From corewar-l@koth.org Thu Nov 29 06:37:24 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAT4bOA08037 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 06:37:24 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAT4bNO15360 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 06:37:23 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA19108; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 23:35:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 23:35:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3C05A70B.3F09F630@epix.net> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: internut@epix.net Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Nathan McKenzie To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Windows ME Compatability MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Are there any pMARS programs that are compatible on Windows ME? Brandon From corewar-l@koth.org Fri Nov 30 20:10:43 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAUIAgS14255 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:10:43 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAUIAfO16976 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:10:42 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA06302; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:08:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:08:25 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <20011129162417.75473.qmail@web11607.mail.yahoo.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: paul_virak_khuong@yahoo.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Paul-V Khuong To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: Windows ME Compatability MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: --- Nathan McKenzie wrote: > Are there any pMARS programs that are > compatible on Windows ME? Well, pMARS IS compatible with ME. Just download the latest version as though you were using 98 or 95 and you'll be fine. (IE, pmars for DOS and pmarsv for 286) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 From corewar-l@koth.org Fri Nov 30 20:11:48 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAUIBlS11530 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:11:47 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fAUIBkO13363 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:11:46 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA06327; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:09:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:09:54 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <01112908003401.00881@eldred> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: steveg58@iinet.net.au Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Steve Gunnell To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: -94nop desperately needs stone/paper Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.1.99] Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 28 Nov 2001 00:09, M Joonas Pihlaja wrote: > Only two papers, a heap of scanners, and load of stone/imps. The > time is ripe for stone/anti-imp-paper. Last person to make a > submission takes the imps out for dinner. (And if Gunnell will > supply us with another batch of killer scanners, in your own > time, please. ;-) ) > > Joonas Hi there, Please, please, *my* scanners never quite make the grade. I dont think I've ever had one in the top half of the hill (well I could be wrong). 'Hazy Lazy' is just 'The Machine' given a very light polish. I don't think I have a copy of the the original 'Blur 2' so I can't tell where the features come from. However Anton Marsden did a good job on 'The Machine'. The cmp scanners are probably the most potent form of scanner. With suitable spacing the scan has a good coverage early in the cycle and unlike f-scanners it is not distracted by imp trails and djn streams. I would like to have tested a version with the speed up trick from John Metcalf's 'Zoooom' but I've never been able to modify any of my other scanners to use it. The bomb from the scan loop design (does anyone know who originated it?) seems to be particularly effective and in the case of 'The Machine' the 'spl #1, #1' trail that it writes is transparent to the scan but distracts f-scanners while slowing djn streams and d-clears. My changes are to change the scan step and gap and modify the decoy to still be transparent to the new cmp scan gap. The boot distance is also interesting in that it uses the decoy as a shield from quickscans. Now if I could just get one of the 'Mr Sheen' paper/stones to stick on the hill I would be verry happy 8-). So here it is. The constants are real but if you abuse them i have alternatives 8-). ;redcode-94nop ;name Hazy Lazy ... ;author Steve Gunnell ;strategy Optimized and mildly altered version of 'The Machine' by Anton Marsden. ;strategy Especially hostile to anything with a DJN stram. ;assert 1 step EQU 5620 gate EQU top away EQU (clr+363) ptr: mov.i inc+1,>step top: mov.i bomb,>ptr scan: seq.i 2*step,2*step+8 mov.ab scan,@top a: sub.f inc,scan jmn.b top,@top inc: spl.i #-step,>-step mov.i clr,>gate btm: djn.f -1,>gate clr: dat.f <2667,clr-gate+2 dat 0,0 spl.i #-step,>-step dat 0,0 bomb: spl #1, #1 dat 0,0 dat 0,0 mov.i {-3,<6 dat 0,0 boot: mov.i clr,; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:13:17 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB3DDDO17624 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:13:13 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA04778; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 08:10:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 08:10:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200112030500.AAA06325@gevjon.ttsg.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: koth@koth.org Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Koth To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - MultiWarrior 94 12/03/01 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: O X-Status: Weekly Status on 12/03/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html sleep 180 Current Status of the KOTH.ORG Multiwarrior 94 CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Thu Nov 29 16:57:42 EST 2001 # Name Author Score Age 1 fclear Brian Haskin 27 69 2 D-clearM Ken Espiritu 24 85 3 sptst (4D-p) Stefan Foerster 21 2 4 8thTest Gino Oblena 18 16 5 Impforcer Ben Ford 18 1 6 test John Metcalf 16 13 7 Her Majesty P.Kline 16 104 8 Xord Monominer XOSC:01 Gino Oblena 15 24 9 Pitbull Christian Schmidt 11 41 10 QuiVa John Metcalf 11 178 11 Carrot Grater v1.1 Brant D. Thomsen 7 3 From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Dec 3 15:14:59 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB3DExS00981 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:14:59 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB3DEvO14118 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:14:58 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA04819; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 08:13:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 08:13:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200112030500.AAA06321@gevjon.ttsg.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: koth@koth.org Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Koth To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - Standard 12/03/01 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: O X-Status: Weekly Status on 12/03/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html sleep 180 Current Status of the KOTH.ORG Standard KotH CoreWar Hill : Last battle concluded at : Mon Nov 26 06:27:17 EST 2001 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 34/ 20/ 46 Freight Train David Moore 149 79 2 32/ 20/ 48 Test Alexander (Sasha) Wa 145 18 3 32/ 20/ 48 Guardian Ian Oversby 143 78 4 32/ 21/ 47 sIMPly.Red v0.95 Leonardo Humberto 143 36 5 34/ 27/ 39 vala John Metcalf 142 1 6 41/ 44/ 15 Foggy Swamp Beppe Bezzi 137 75 7 36/ 36/ 27 PacMan David Moore 137 108 8 38/ 40/ 22 Stasis David Moore 136 186 9 40/ 44/ 16 Blur '88 Anton Marsden 136 116 10 25/ 16/ 59 EV Paper John K Wilkinson 134 92 11 26/ 19/ 55 Jinglo John Metcalf 133 3 12 25/ 19/ 56 Test I Ian Oversby 132 135 13 39/ 46/ 15 Iron Gate Wayne Sheppard 132 404 14 35/ 39/ 26 Tangle Trap David Moore 132 152 15 27/ 22/ 51 Shish-Ka-Bob Ben Ford 131 34 16 39/ 47/ 14 ig Wayne Sheppard 130 6 17 25/ 20/ 55 Evoltmp 88 John K W 130 129 18 36/ 43/ 21 Beholder's Eye V1.7 W. Mintardjo 130 354 19 14/ 3/ 82 ]enigma[ Michal Janeczek 126 7 20 28/ 32/ 39 Frog Sticker P.Kline 124 28 21 16/ 77/ 7 Dataimp BN 55 0 From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Dec 3 15:16:23 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB3DGMS14031 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:16:22 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB3DGLO32345 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:16:21 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA04858; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 08:14:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 08:14:51 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200112030500.AAA06334@gevjon.ttsg.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: koth@koth.org Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Koth To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - 94 No Pspace 12/03/01 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: O X-Status: Weekly Status on 12/03/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html sleep 180 Current Status of the KOTH.ORG 94 No Pspace CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Sun Dec 2 16:55:31 EST 2001 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 35/ 24/ 41 Quicksilver Michal Janeczek 147 496 2 33/ 21/ 45 Son of Vain Oversby/Pihlaja 145 323 3 43/ 41/ 16 Hazy Lazy ... Steve Gunnell 145 76 4 34/ 24/ 42 Inky Ian Oversby 144 213 5 32/ 24/ 44 Olivia Ben Ford 141 462 6 33/ 25/ 42 Uninvited John Metcalf 140 416 7 41/ 43/ 16 G3-b David Moore 139 4 8 31/ 22/ 47 nPaper II Paul-V Khuong 139 734 9 40/ 43/ 17 Behemot Michal Janeczek 138 557 10 34/ 30/ 36 Blacken Ian Oversby 137 981 11 31/ 26/ 43 Revival Fire P.Kline 137 202 12 23/ 13/ 64 The Phantom Menace Anton Marsden 134 434 13 30/ 27/ 42 Qtest Christian Schmidt 133 256 14 28/ 22/ 50 paper/stone test simon 133 9 15 34/ 35/ 31 Keyser Soze Anton Marsden 133 435 16 27/ 22/ 51 paper/stone test simon 132 10 17 38/ 46/ 16 Eraser II Ken Espiritu 129 691 18 37/ 45/ 18 clock strikes twelve John Metcalf 129 2 19 40/ 54/ 6 He Scans Alone x P.Kline 127 62 20 37/ 54/ 9 scan_dwarf David Moore 121 1 21 26/ 64/ 10 Simple Lukasz Grabun 87 0 From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Dec 3 15:17:51 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB3DHpS15896 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:17:51 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB3DHoT27448 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:17:50 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA04965; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 08:16:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 08:16:16 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200112030500.AAA06329@gevjon.ttsg.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: koth@koth.org Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Koth To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - ICWS Experimental 94 12/03/01 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Weekly Status on 12/03/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html sleep 180 Current Status of the KOTH.ORG ICWS Experimental 94 CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Sat Dec 1 09:45:02 EST 2001 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 55/ 33/ 12 Fire and Ice II David Moore 178 1 2 34/ 21/ 44 KAT v5 Dave Hillis 147 33 3 40/ 34/ 26 Black Moods Ian Oversby 145 97 4 28/ 17/ 55 Katafutr Michal Janeczek 138 41 5 35/ 32/ 33 Controlled Aggression Ian Oversby 138 101 6 36/ 35/ 29 Ogre Christian Schmidt 138 49 7 40/ 43/ 17 Greetings From Asbury Par JKW 136 61 8 31/ 26/ 43 Damage Inflicted Robert Macrae 136 40 9 22/ 9/ 69 Denial David Moore 135 42 10 21/ 7/ 72 Evol Cap 4 X John Wilkinson 134 170 11 24/ 15/ 61 Kin John Metcalf 134 9 12 32/ 33/ 35 Big I.F.F.S. Dave Hillis 132 30 13 18/ 7/ 75 Black Box v1.1 JKW 128 64 14 18/ 7/ 75 Evolve X v4.0 John Wilkinson 128 118 15 22/ 22/ 55 Venom v0.2b Christian Schmidt 123 123 16 28/ 34/ 37 test CS 123 58 17 31/ 45/ 24 Pagan John K W 116 155 18 21/ 28/ 52 Disaster Area 2.8 Stefan Foerster 114 28 19 18/ 23/ 59 Purple v0.1 Christian Schmidt 113 122 20 25/ 47/ 28 Sand-Crawler John Metcalf 104 7 21 11/ 66/ 22 Spray 'n Wipe Test 7 Steve Gunnell 56 0 From corewar-l@koth.org Tue Dec 4 16:09:03 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB4E93S15617 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 16:09:03 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB4E92T18724 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 16:09:02 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA15008; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 09:07:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 09:07:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <20011204132125.34351.qmail@web11605.mail.yahoo.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: paul_virak_khuong@yahoo.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Paul-V Khuong To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: new entry on -94nop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: yes yes ;-) # Warrior Author W% L% T% Score Age 20 Frenzy^4 Lukasz Grabun 32 43 24 120.99 1 ;strategy Q^4 -> stun/bomber/airbag thanks to mjp -> dclear Well done! However, your Q^4 doesn't seem very effective, so you proably could improve your scores by using another one. Paul "Gotta go to that ***** math class" Khuong ;-) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com From corewar-l@koth.org Tue Dec 4 22:35:40 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB4KZdS15356 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 22:35:39 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB4KZbO14062 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 22:35:37 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA17439; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 15:33:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 15:33:34 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: grabek@home.sweet.home Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: grabek To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: new entry on -94nop X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: On 4 Dec 2001 09:08:57 -0500, Paul-V Khuong wrote: > yes yes ;-) thank you :) > # Warrior Author W% L% T% Score Age > 20 Frenzy^4 Lukasz Grabun 32 43 24 > 120.99 1 there's a big gap between pts scored by my warrior and next one. surely it'll be filled soon :))) > > Paul "Gotta go to that ***** math class" Khuong ;-) got problems with math? :) -- pozdrawiam, grabek From corewar-l@koth.org Wed Dec 5 06:26:20 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB54QJS16107 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 06:26:19 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB54QHO24978 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 06:26:18 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA20403; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 23:23:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 23:23:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <20011204225047.10259.qmail@web11605.mail.yahoo.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: paul_virak_khuong@yahoo.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Paul-V Khuong To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: new entry on -94nop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: --- grabek wrote: > there's a big gap between pts scored by my warrior > and next > one. surely it'll be filled soon :))) Good. what are your plans? > > > > Paul "Gotta go to that ***** math class" Khuong > ;-) > > got problems with math? :) Not problems with math... With math class. It's not the same. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com From corewar-l@koth.org Wed Dec 5 10:33:15 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB58XEx26386 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:33:14 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB58XDO29821 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:33:13 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA23443; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 03:31:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 03:31:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: grabek@home.sweet.home Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: grabek To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: new entry on -94nop X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: On 4 Dec 2001 23:25:08 -0500, Paul-V Khuong wrote: >> there's a big gap between pts scored by my warrior >> and next >> one. surely it'll be filled soon :))) > Good. what are your plans? incendiary bomber scoring 126 pts might just be what i neeed. :)) you've mentioned my q4 scan doesnt work well. what did you mean? i thought there's just one q4 :) afair i've copied one i use from jade.red by B.Ford. -- pozdrawiam, grabek From corewar-l@koth.org Wed Dec 5 21:35:53 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB5JZqx12082 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 21:35:53 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB5JZqO18332 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 21:35:52 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA27282; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:33:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:33:45 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <20011205.195059.1239036029.1386@localhost.localdomain> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: grabek@acn.waw.pl Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: "grabek" To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: not the last one Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: finally, after hours of tweaking and programming... my warrior is not the last one on 94 nop hill :))) however, i still hope and strongly believe there are some things could just be improved. i'm still working on it (now i'm trying to insert two-pass core clear into it). i'd like to thank for all the hints. ;redcode-94nop ;name Really Frenzy ;author Lukasz Grabun ;assert 1 org qscan step equ 3315 gate equ (TOP-3) away equ 2345 ; :-) TOP start add #2*step , 2 mov bim , @1 mov }bis , @2-step jmz.a -3 , {bis ;hit with spl bis spl #0 , -step+1 mov bmb , >gate djn.f -1 , >gate bmb dat >5335 , 2-gate bim mov step , >step for 41 dat 0 , 0 rof qf equ qptr qs1 equ 100 qs2 equ 200 qd equ 4000 qi equ 7 qr equ 11 qo equ (qi*qr-10) dat # 15, # 10 ; A, D qtab dat # 7, # 4 ; B, E dat # 13, # 11 ; C, F qbmb dat < 1, < qo qinc dat # qd, # qd qfas mul.f qtab, qptr ; decode qfnd sne *qptr, @qptr add qinc, qptr sne >3456, @qptr mov.x qptr, qptr qloo mov qbmb, @qptr ; .5c negative bomber qptr mov < qs2, @ qs1 sub.x # qi, qptr djn qloo, # qr jmp boot, >1234 qscan sne qf+ 1*qs2, qf+ 1*qs1 seq qf+ 1*qs2+qd, qf+ 1*qs1+qd ; 1, 1 jmp qfnd, {qf+ 1*qs2+qd+qi sne qf+ 8*qs2, qf+ 4*qs1 seq qf+ 8*qs2+qd, qf+ 4*qs1+qd ; B+1, E jmp qfas, }qtab sne qf+ 7*qs2, qf+ 5*qs1 seq qf+ 7*qs2+qd, qf+ 5*qs1+qd ; B, E+1 jmp qfas, >qtab sne qf+ 6*qs2, qf+ 3*qs1 seq qf+ 6*qs2+qd, qf+ 3*qs1+qd ; B-1, E-1 djn.f qfas, qtab sne qf+13*qs2, qf+11*qs1 seq qf+13*qs2+qd, qf+11*qs1+qd ; C, F jmp qfas, }qfas sne qf+15*qs2, qf+10*qs1 seq qf+15*qs2+qd, qf+10*qs1+qd ; A, D jmp qfas, {qfas sne qf+14*qs2, qf+ 9*qs1 seq qf+14*qs2+qd, qf+ 9*qs1+qd ; A-1, D-1 djn.f qfas, {qfas boot mov bim , away for 8 mov {boot , boot , #5 jmp away+boot-7 -- pozdrawiam, grabek From corewar-l@koth.org Thu Dec 6 21:33:46 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB6JXjx17985 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 21:33:45 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB6JXjT15644 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 21:33:45 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA07376; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 14:31:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 14:31:51 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: jpihlaja@cc.helsinki.fi Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: M Joonas Pihlaja To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: anti-dat clear? Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Here's something that might work against those pesky dat >1 stones: A: spl #0,0 mov bomb, >gate ; lots of processes here mov bomb, >gate jmp -2 B: mov bomb, >gate ; only one process here jmp -1 Boot one process to A and one to B. A will start generating lots of processes and do most of the clearing with B in reserve. If a dat >1 bomb hits the top clear then it will self-destruct, but shouldn't hurt the bottom clear. The single process in B revs up and continues clearing. Assuming the opponent bomber is using an 'optimal' step size it shouldn't be hitting B any time soon. Similarly, if a bomb hits B then it will die as there's only one process in it, but A keeps on clearing. Again assuming a sane step size for the opponent stone, A should be reasonably safe for a while. Odds are a million-to-one, but it just might work! :-) Joonas From corewar-l@koth.org Fri Dec 7 01:39:06 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB6Nd5x03217 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 01:39:05 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB6Nd4O08772 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 01:39:04 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA08963; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 18:33:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 18:33:54 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3C0FF0C7.9187B25A@epix.net> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: internut@epix.net Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Nathan McKenzie To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: Windows ME Compatability MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Ok, the pmars (and pshell) are in and ready. Just a slight problem, when I start making the programs battle, the thing crashes! It always worked on my now deceased Win95 running system, but not on the ME system. What's wrong with me / it / anything concerning it / anything concerning me? From corewar-l@koth.org Fri Dec 7 01:40:36 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB6NeZx06113 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 01:40:35 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB6NeZT25253 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 01:40:35 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA08999; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 18:35:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 18:35:48 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <20011206224734.89182.qmail@web11608.mail.yahoo.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: paul_virak_khuong@yahoo.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Paul-V Khuong To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: anti-dat clear? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: --- M Joonas Pihlaja wrote: > > Here's something that might work against those pesky > dat >1 > stones: > > A: spl #0,0 > mov bomb, >gate ; lots of processes > here > mov bomb, >gate > jmp -2 > B: mov bomb, >gate ; only one process > here > jmp -1 > > Boot one process to A and one to B. A will start > generating lots > of processes and do most of the clearing with B in > reserve. [snip] Why not jsut use something like: spl #0,0 mov bomb, >gate mov bomb, >gate djn.f -1, >gate It's smaller, faster, and it won't stop working if it's hit with a dat >1.. Paul Khuong __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From corewar-l@koth.org Fri Dec 7 02:33:14 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB70XDx09086 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 02:33:13 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB70XCO16270 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 02:33:13 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA09388; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 19:31:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 19:31:14 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3C0FFEAF.64B7DBC7@libero.it> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: giorgioschi@libero.it Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Xxxxx To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: A (pretty old) "new" standard for CW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Hi there! This message is about a proposal for a completely "new" standard for the Core Wars: a new virtual processor with completely new rules. Actually, I designed it more than ten years ago (the project started in 1988 and became stable in 1992, with minor adjustments going on until 1995), so it not as "new" as I pretend it to be. In 1997, I published an incomplete, but readable description of this new system on the Web, which is still available at http://www.math.unipd.it/~mezzetti/ROME68000/ I also posted an announcement to this newsgroup, but nothing happened. I called this new system "R.O.M.E.68000", in honour of the famous Motorola microprocessor. Its main features are the following: - richer and much more powerful set of instruction; - richer and much more powerful set of addressing modes; - clear separation between program variables (the "live" data like counters, addresses, pointers...) and the "inert matter" like the program code (or the bombs); - instructions to move entire blocks of consecutive locations of the memory array; - stacks and subroutines; - a well-structured multitasking environment, with a link of parenthood among execution threads and the possibility to selectively kill all the threads which descend from a given one; - support for the "Core Cold War" (for details, see the web pages cited above). As I said, this did not seem to interest anybody, not even when it was really a novelty, besides a couple of my friends -- and this must be said frankly and honestly. But now another friend of mine, who saw this old project and liked it, encouraged me to try again. May be that somebody can still find this stuff interesting. But the true reason for which I am writing is that talking with this person has suggested to me the possibility of developing the successor of this system, taking into account the new ideas sprung in the meantime about CW. For this reason, I would appreciate very much any comment -- even negative -- on what I did ten years ago. OK, the message is already too long. Thank you for your attention, and bye. -- Gustavo Mezzetti Universita` degli Studi di Padova Dipartimento di Matematica Pura e Applicata http://www.math.unipd.it/~mezzetti/ MUFFLEY (sdegnato): Generale Turgidson! Noi abbiamo ripetutamente dichiarato che non saremo mai i primi a fare uso di armi nucleari! TURGIDSON (sarcastico): Be', signor Presidente, direi che il generale Ripper e` gia` venuto meno a questo impegno... -- "Il dottor Stranamore", regia di S. Kubrick, 1964 From corewar-l@koth.org Fri Dec 7 13:31:54 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB7BVrx04506 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 13:31:54 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB7BVqO10822 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 13:31:53 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA14720; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 06:30:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 06:30:16 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3C109670.7010607@pipeline.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: pbt@pipeline.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Philip Thorne To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Swamp Life? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Things have gone quiet - is anything happening? Anyone interested? It'd be a shame for this to come to nothing given the interest shown by the old-timers :-P their continued interest is needed quite as much as fresh blood. Paying heed to this '98 warning from JK Lewis: >A word of advice on suggesting changes, unless you can both capture >the imagination of the group AND make the changes you suggest you can >never actually get change. [...] how about an IRC meet to see what, if anything is/can/should be done? To get core rolling I suggest 1930 GMT Sunday at irc.koth.org. Only problem I'm likely to have work to do but if there's any interest expressed beforehand I'll be by. mov.pbt #0, (2*24)+15-6+ABIT Philb From corewar-l@koth.org Fri Dec 7 14:33:36 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB7CXZx12022 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:33:35 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB7CXYT07380 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:33:35 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA15095; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 07:32:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 07:32:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: grabek@home.sweet.home Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: grabek To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: -94nop desperately needs stone/paper X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: On 27 Nov 2001 11:09:17 -0500, M Joonas Pihlaja wrote: > Only two papers, a heap of scanners, and load of stone/imps. The > time is ripe for stone/anti-imp-paper. Last person to make a > submission takes the imps out for dinner. (And if Gunnell will > supply us with another batch of killer scanners, in your own > time, please. ;-) ) having read this post and some old cw issues (also this one with recovery code) i was trying to make such a thing. however it seems for me that combining stone and paper together doesn't make sense. paper self-splits like crazy and after a number of cycles, the stone (i've made it a stand-alone process) runs veeery slow. or stone/paper is a paper with bombing instructions in it? or am i missing something? -- pozdrawiam, grabek From corewar-l@koth.org Fri Dec 7 15:36:32 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB7DaWx29255 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:36:32 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB7DaUO19385 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:36:31 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA15557; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 08:35:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 08:35:03 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: jpihlaja@cc.helsinki.fi Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: M Joonas Pihlaja To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: -94nop desperately needs stone/paper Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 7 Dec 2001, grabek wrote: [snip advert for stone/paper] > however it seems for me that combining stone and paper > together doesn't make sense. paper self-splits like crazy and > after a number of cycles, the stone (i've made it a > stand-alone process) runs veeery slow. That's the trick. For an aggressive stone/paper the stone is fed lots of processes at the start and it splits itself a lot (say have two leading spl #0,0's instead of one, or perhaps a add/spl-1/mov/djn stone). Also, you don't have to keep the stone alive for the whole battle, just long enough to scare the scanners away. When you have a strong stone component for the first few thousand cycles, then the problem is to position the paper so that it isn't weakened too much by your own bombing. Needless to say, all of this means lots and lots of tweaking to get things *just* right. I've never managed it myself, but Oversby's Recovery is a good example, as are Metcalf's stone/papers. Schmidt has published a few too. > or stone/paper is a paper with bombing instructions in it? or > am i missing something? You could do that to try to get a few wins against scanners while still having mostly paper modules. IIRC, see Kline's DieHard or JKW's Return of the Jedimp for two different strategies. Joonas From corewar-l@koth.org Fri Dec 7 15:38:08 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB7Dc7x29570 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:38:08 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB7Dc6O19190 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:38:07 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA15598; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 08:36:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 08:36:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: grabek@home.sweet.home Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: grabek To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: A (pretty old) "new" standard for CW X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 06 Dec 2001 23:26:41 GMT, Xxxxx wrote: > As I said, this did not seem to interest anybody, not even when it > was really a novelty, besides a couple of my friends -- and this must be > said frankly and honestly. But now another friend of mine, who saw this > old project and liked it, encouraged me to try again. May be that > somebody can still find this stuff interesting. But the true reason for > which I am writing is that talking with this person has suggested to me > the possibility of developing the successor of this system, taking into > account the new ideas sprung in the meantime about CW. For this reason, I > would appreciate very much any comment -- even negative -- on what I did > ten years ago. i dont know whether i, as a newbie, am the one who can express his opinnion, but there are some things i have noticed though it's been only a month or so since i started to play corewars. i've got a strange feeling that all things that might be just invented/implemented/coded in corewars have already been done. do old vetererans of cw remember when was the last "brand new algorithm" posted here? maybe a new set of instructions, new adressing modes etc. would give some life to corewars (because there're just three or four people who post here more than once in a month). maybe it's just a good idea to make a new experimental hill with warriors coded in rome68000. -- pozdrawiam, grabek From corewar-l@koth.org Fri Dec 7 16:03:22 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB7E3Mx00302 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 16:03:22 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB7E3LT15905 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 16:03:22 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA15770; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:01:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:01:52 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: fordbc@hotmail.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: "Benjamin Ford" To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: -94nop desperately needs stone/paper Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: From: grabek >On 27 Nov 2001 11:09:17 -0500, M Joonas Pihlaja >wrote: > > > Only two papers, a heap of scanners, and load of stone/imps. The > > time is ripe for stone/anti-imp-paper. Last person to make a > > submission takes the imps out for dinner. (And if Gunnell will > > supply us with another batch of killer scanners, in your own > > time, please. ;-) ) > > having read this post and some old cw issues (also this one with >recovery code) i was trying to make such a thing. > > however it seems for me that combining stone and paper >together doesn't make sense. paper self-splits like crazy and after a >number of cycles, the stone (i've made it a stand-alone process) runs >veeery slow. > > or stone/paper is a paper with bombing instructions in it? or >am i missing something? A normal stone tends to look like: SPL MOV ADD DJN When you make a stone/paper stone, you want something like: SPL SPL MOV ADD DJN The extra SPL on top allows the stone to keep up with the paper. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From corewar-l@koth.org Fri Dec 7 19:17:05 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB7HH5x20210 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 19:17:05 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB7HH4T28260 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 19:17:05 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA17058; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:15:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:15:33 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <20011207161057.31662.qmail@web9607.mail.yahoo.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: waknuk@yahoo.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Philip=20Thorne?= To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Swamp Life MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Things have gone quiet - is anything happening? Anyone interested? It'd be a shame for this to come to nothing given the interest shown by the old-timers :-P their continued interest is needed quite as much as fresh blood. Paying heed to this '98 warning from JK Lewis: >A word of advice on suggesting changes, unless you can both capture >the imagination of the group AND make the changes you suggest you can >never actually get change. [...] how about an IRC meet to see what, if anything is/can/should be done? To get core rolling I suggest 1930 GMT Sunday at irc.koth.org. Only problem I'm likely to have work to do but if there's any interest expressed beforehand I'll be by. mov.pbt #0, (2*24)+9+ABIT-6 Philb ________________________________________________________________ Nokia 5510 looks weird sounds great. Go to http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/nokia/ discover and win it! The competition ends 16 th of December 2001. From corewar-l@koth.org Sat Dec 8 05:31:56 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB83Vsx32514 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 05:31:54 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB83VsT20395 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 05:31:54 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA20701; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 22:29:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 22:29:48 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200112080157.fB81vPO20392@andromeda.ociw.edu> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: birk@andromeda.ociw.edu Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: birk@andromeda.ociw.edu To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Koenigstuhl News X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Contratulations to Steve Gunnels! His warrior 'Hazy Lazy ...' is the new #2 on the 94nop-Koenigstuhl. Christoph http://www.ociw.edu/~birk/COREWAR/koenigstuhl.html From corewar-l@koth.org Sat Dec 8 08:33:42 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB86Xgx08790 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 08:33:42 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB86XeO14644 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 08:33:40 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA21833; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 01:32:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 01:32:06 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: mooredav@mac.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: David Matthew Moore To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: anti-dat clear? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: M Joonas Pihlaja wrote: > Here's something that might work against those pesky dat >1 > stones: The problem with dat >1 (or mov x, 1) is that you bomb yourself if they land on your gate or your own bomb. How about this clear? It won't bomb itself. gate dat 0, 20 spl #0, gate djn.f 0, {gate+1 bomb dat 0, 20 David. From corewar-l@koth.org Sat Dec 8 08:34:59 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB86Yxx07000 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 08:34:59 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB86YwO13216 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 08:34:58 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA21854; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 01:33:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 01:33:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <2mhQ7.8304$va.3850916@news2.rdc1.mi.home.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: mooredav@mac.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: David Matthew Moore To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: A (pretty old) "new" standard for CW X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Xxxxx wrote: > This message is about a proposal for a completely "new" standard > for the Core Wars: a new virtual processor with completely new rules. Not interested... until you have sample warriors to show. Did you play your game at all? > and this must be said frankly and honestly. I'm glad that you're in a "frank" and "honest" mood. You've got nothing. Since you didn't bother to learn anything from the last 14 years of play, then I won't bother to elaborate. It's too much work to bring clue to the clueless. David. From corewar-l@koth.org Sat Dec 8 08:36:23 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB86aMx09458 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 08:36:22 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB86aMT24309 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 08:36:22 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA21885; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 01:34:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 01:34:56 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: mooredav@mac.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: David Matthew Moore To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: A (pretty old) "new" standard for CW X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: grabek wrote: > i've got a strange feeling that all things that might be just > invented/implemented/coded in corewars have already been done. No, there's lots of stuff that hasn't been done yet. However, the bar is raised very high. You need a lot of effort to come up with new stuff these days. > maybe it's just a good idea to make a new experimental hill > with warriors coded in rome68000. I agree that it's time to change, but that isn't it. The changes will have to come from somebody inside that knows what they're doing. I'm interested in Paul's suggestion to create specialized warriors that beat special classes of programs. But I haven't really thought about it enough yet. David. From corewar-l@koth.org Sat Dec 8 14:32:08 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB8CW8x29915 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 14:32:08 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB8CW7O04929 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 14:32:07 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA25506; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 07:30:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 07:30:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: grabek@home.sweet.home Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: grabek To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: A (pretty old) "new" standard for CW X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: On Sat, 08 Dec 2001, David Matthew Moore wrote: > No, there's lots of stuff that hasn't been done yet. > > However, the bar is raised very high. You need a lot of effort > to come up with new stuff these days. maybe you're right. i don't know how to programm in redcode very well, so i might just be missing something. > >> maybe it's just a good idea to make a new experimental hill >> with warriors coded in rome68000. > > I agree that it's time to change, but that isn't it. > The changes will have to come from somebody inside that > knows what they're doing. > I'm interested in Paul's suggestion to create specialized > warriors that beat special classes of programs. > But I haven't really thought about it enough yet. i think that the thing core wars society needs the most are new players. designing highly specialized warriors that could beat another highly specialized warrior is not something a begginer can do. it would me frustrating for newcomers. maybe a beginner hill is the thing that would bring "fresh new life" to cw. and it's much easier to do than announcing new redcode-2001. > David. -- pozdrawiam, grabek From corewar-l@koth.org Sat Dec 8 20:27:52 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB8IRqx18370 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 20:27:52 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB8IRpO27066 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 20:27:51 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA27607; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 13:26:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 13:26:20 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <20011208152325.50998.qmail@web11607.mail.yahoo.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: paul_virak_khuong@yahoo.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Paul-V Khuong To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: anti-dat clear? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: --- David Matthew Moore wrote: > M Joonas Pihlaja wrote: > > Here's something that might work against those > pesky dat >1 > > stones: > > The problem with dat >1 (or mov x, 1) is that > you bomb yourself if they land on your gate or your > own bomb. > > How about this clear? It won't bomb itself. > > gate dat 0, 20 > > spl #0, mov bomb, >gate > djn.f 0, {gate+1 > bomb dat 0, 20 Why wouldn't it bomb itself? Gate gets changed to dat 0,1. *poof* you die, unless you get lucky and the spl is executed. Well, if one only wants a "dat 1" resistant clear which ALSO gates, it is possible. Dat only, though. We have to go low-tech and all, though. Backward clear! ^_^ (agh...my email client crashed, and its database too, so i have to use Yahoo!...which does NOT let me use tabs. oh, right i can paste them in!) gate dat.f 0, db [...] db dat.f <-ptr+gate+1,<-gate spl #0, {gate mov >gate, {ptr jmp -1, ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 22:35:35 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB8KZYT20015 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 22:35:34 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA28481; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 15:34:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 15:34:04 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3C12701A.61172D38@libero.it> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: giorgioschi@libero.it Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: "giorgioschi (nickname)" To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: A (pretty old) "new" standard for CW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: David Matthew Moore wrote: > [...] > > The changes will have to come from somebody inside that > knows what they're doing. > > [...] .. and, of course, nobody is as far from being an insider as me. I have never written a CW program using the official rules of the ICWS, because -- please, forgive me! -- I don't like them. Gee, people, I am so happy that this time somebody has read my message and has answered to it. Let me clarify some points on which I did not insist sufficiently in my previous post. 1) This "R.O.M.E.68000" system was conceived more than ten years ago. The work was done in complete isolation, on the pure basis of what I had read on "Scientific American" (actually, on its Italian edition "Le Scienze"), for the very simple reason that I had no Internet connectivity at all at that time. It is _obvious_ that even thinking of proposing such a thing as "a new standard for CW" is absolutely ridiculous, and that this is not at all my intention (it _was_ my intention years ago, but not know :-) ; and, in any case, always in the sense of "an alternative standard for CW", definitely not a substitute for the current one!). Admittedly, the subject of my post was misleading. A more appropriate subject should have been "A (pretty old) pervert variation of CW". 2) What I aim to is simply to find half a dozen of friends around the world who would like to discuss on this strange, peculiar, and perhaps weird variation of the game. 3) Although conceived without knowing what was going on in the meantime in the world of CW, nevertheless the R.O.M.E.68000 system was designed very carefully, with certain well-defined ideas in mind. I think that the system is neat and has a high degree of self-consistency; moreover, the project is fairly complex and contains a considerable amount of work. I also think that some ideas could be good also for a (possible) new release of the ICWS rules. For instance, the instructions for the management of relatives pointers (MVAD, MVPT, XGPT, CFPT, DNPT, and RNPT) could be of some interest. Block of words, registers, stacks, and subroutines are also something that you might want to take into consideration. 4) The place were an incomplete manual of the R.O.M.E.68000 system can be found was not completely exact; here is the correct reference: http://www.math.unipd.it/~mezzetti/ROME68000/Manual/ Please note that, being the work of an enthusiast, this stuff is pretty long. :-) The manual was originally written for the benefit of a couple of my friends who where interested in it. 5) Lastly, it is true that changes to CW rules should be proposed by people with long experience, who know what they are doing. But I think that, in a context like this, it is also possible that a newby, who thought seriously, albeit in isolation, on a certain project for a considerable amount of time (in my case, four years of sunday evenings), could bring in new ideas of some interest. After all, we are speaking of a game, not of the design concepts of the next-generation operating system... :-) Bye, and thanks for your attention. -- Gustavo MEZZETTI From corewar-l@koth.org Sun Dec 9 00:31:04 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB8MV4x29604 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 00:31:04 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB8MV3T22900 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 00:31:03 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA29139; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 17:29:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 17:29:31 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <9uu1br$2v3$04$1@news.t-online.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: 5l259r001@sneakemail.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: "Steffen Müller" <5l259r001@sneakemail.com> To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: A (pretty old) "new" standard for CW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: "Xxxxx" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:3C0FFEAF.64B7DBC7@libero.it... | Hi there! | | This message is about a proposal for a completely "new" standard | for the Core Wars: "Perhaps the most radical innovation in the 68000 architecture [...] is the introduction of some instructions that are able to move or manipulate a block of many locations in the core at one time: this is particularly useful to copy a long program in a short time, and goes in the direction of supporting long and complicated programs versus short ones. For instance, there is an instruction that copies a block of words from one location of the core to another: you can specify the length of the block and the base addresses of the source and the target. " That sounds like you could just copy one half of the core minus one half of your own code to the space following this block of code in one op. That would give you a pretty good chance of killing any program in the latter "half" of the core. Regards, Steffen Müller -- $_=q;0cb212c210b0bb010c0113bb0c410c0b516c0bb3d212c2b0b0b016b6cb2b2c21010c0 b41110b3bba0e0c0d2c4b2b6bc013d2c0d0b01012b0b0;;s/\n//g;s/(\d)/$1<2?$1:'0'x $1/ge;s/([a-f])/'1'x(ord($1)-97)/ge;$o=$_;push@o,substr($o,$_*8,8) for(0.. 24);for(@o){print"\0"x(26-$i).chr(oct('0b'.($_)))."\r";$i++};print"\n"#stm From corewar-l@koth.org Sun Dec 9 02:32:44 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB90Whx06762 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 02:32:43 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB90WgO19863 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 02:32:42 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA29906; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 19:31:11 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 19:31:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3C12A9CE.DFF38C09@libero.it> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: giorgioschi@libero.it Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: "giorgioschi (nickname)" To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: A (pretty old) "new" standard for CW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: "Steffen Müller" wrote: > [...] > > That sounds like you could just copy one half of the core minus one half of > your own code to the space following this block of code in one op. That > would give you a pretty good chance of killing any program in the latter > "half" of the core. > > [...] Of course not! There should be a limit to the length of the blocks you can copy with a single instruction. This limit should be discussed. A proposal is to impose a limit of 32 locations in a memory array of 65536 locations. You can find _some_ of the details in http://www.math.unipd.it/~mezzetti/ROME68000/Manual/Tome1/Section-I-5.html Best regards, -- Gustavo MEZZETTI From corewar-l@koth.org Sun Dec 9 13:35:20 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB9BZJx01986 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 13:35:19 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB9BZIO02068 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 13:35:19 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA05335; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 06:33:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 06:33:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: grabek@home.sweet.home Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: grabek To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: succesful bombs :) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: though i've managed to create well performing paper (oh, at least it's on the hill at the moment :) i still like bomber/stones best of all. now i'm trying to design a new one that would be more deadly to paper (really frenzy sometimes gets to win one or two rounds, but it's still too weak). i think that most important part in a bomber is bomb it uses. really frenzy uses sth like: mov step, >step ... spl #0, -step+1; a well known incendiary bomb. i think that the reason really frenzy performs well is that it throws to bombs in just one loop reaching the speed 50% of c. however these standard incendiary bombs don't perform well against paper. so i think of something like spl 0 , 2 mov -1 , >-1 in my opinion it's the deadliest two-instruction bomb (i'm right, aren't i?). but it's two-instruction bomb! it takes much more time to throw that kind of bombs, so in four instruction loop my bomber can deliver just one bomb ergo it performs worse. i'd like to ask: how to make it perform better? :) -- pozdrawiam, grabek From corewar-l@koth.org Sun Dec 9 16:32:27 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB9EWQx15747 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 16:32:27 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB9EWPO29310 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 16:32:26 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA06381; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 09:30:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 09:30:48 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: jpihlaja@cc.helsinki.fi Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: M Joonas Pihlaja To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: A (pretty old) "new" standard for CW Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: [snip all] Do you have a simulator we could try out? I briefly browsed your page but didn't see one. Without it you're not likely to be able to drum up much interest or insightful discussion. Even plain old ANSI C with a command line interface would be good. No graphical frills or anything needed. Regards, Joonas From corewar-l@koth.org Sun Dec 9 17:27:50 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB9FRox18868 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 17:27:50 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB9FRnT20114 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 17:27:49 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA06804; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 10:26:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 10:26:21 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <20011209144202.96780.qmail@web11604.mail.yahoo.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: paul_virak_khuong@yahoo.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Paul-V Khuong To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: succesful bombs :) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: --- grabek wrote: [snip] > spl 0 , 2 > mov -1 , >-1 > > in my opinion it's the deadliest two-instruction > bomb (i'm > right, aren't i?). but it's two-instruction bomb! it > takes much more > time to throw that kind of bombs, so in four > instruction loop my > bomber can deliver just one bomb ergo it performs > worse. > > i'd like to ask: how to make it perform better? :) Well, the problem with silk is you have to either hit REALLY early, or to bomb with a long carpet. That's my personal experience, anyway. I had a ~60% incendiary bomber based on tornado, but it wasn't any good VS papers. So, it really seems to me that... vampires(!? to use chess notation ;) are the only option. You can keep your speed, and have a more effective bomb. Plus, when compared to an incendiary bomb, the "wasted" cycle jumping/spling to the trap isn't that bad. Now, can someone help me remember what was the downfall of vampires? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From corewar-l@koth.org Sun Dec 9 17:29:15 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB9FTFx18314 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 17:29:15 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB9FTEO02492 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 17:29:14 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA06852; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 10:27:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 10:27:47 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <20011209032805.21186.qmail@web11608.mail.yahoo.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: paul_virak_khuong@yahoo.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Paul-V Khuong To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: A (pretty old) "new" standard for CW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: --- grabek wrote: > i think that the thing core wars society needs the > most are > new players. designing highly specialized warriors > that could beat > another highly specialized warrior is not something > a begginer can do. > it would me frustrating for newcomers. > > maybe a beginner hill is the thing that would bring > "fresh new life" > to cw. and it's much easier to do than announcing > new redcode-2001. The kind of RPG/tutorial-esque thing was interesting. Like, we create hills with warrior from different eras(1986, 1988, 1990,1991...), and the players try to move from one level to another. The main thing is finding someone to host the hills. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From corewar-l@koth.org Sun Dec 9 17:36:48 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB9Famx13411 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 17:36:48 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB9FalT20457 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 17:36:48 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA07004; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 10:35:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 10:35:16 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: jpihlaja@cc.helsinki.fi Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: M Joonas Pihlaja To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: anti-dat clear? Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: On Sat, 8 Dec 2001, David Matthew Moore wrote: > The problem with dat >1 (or mov x, 1) is that you bomb > yourself if they land on your gate or your own bomb. Yeah... a bugger that. > How about this clear? It won't bomb itself. > > gate dat 0, 20 > > spl #0, mov bomb, >gate > djn.f 0, {gate+1 > bomb dat 0, 20 Change to djn.f -1,{gate+1? Otherwise it looks like it wouldn't clear at all -- most processes stay at the djn.f line with the mov and spl lines' gate cancelling out. OK, wow... that's really neat the way it mutates into a kind of backward clear when the decrement stream hits the clear. Still suicides on dat >1 bombs hitting the gate too soon though. :-( Joonas From corewar-l@koth.org Sun Dec 9 19:32:16 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB9HWFx29869 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 19:32:15 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB9HWET25172 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 19:32:15 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA07673; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 12:30:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 12:30:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: grabek@home.sweet.home Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: grabek To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: A (pretty old) "new" standard for CW X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: On 9 Dec 2001, Paul-V Khuong wrote: > The kind of RPG/tutorial-esque thing was interesting. > Like, we create hills with warrior from different > eras(1986, 1988, 1990,1991...), and the players try to > move from one level to another. > The main thing is finding someone to host the hills. i suppose i have 20 megabytes of free space on my isp server; i'm not sure though. i need someone to program all necessary scripts/html pages etc. hosting hills seems not to be the problem; but are there any willing players? -- pozdrawiam, grabek From corewar-l@koth.org Sun Dec 9 19:33:42 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB9HXgx29788 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 19:33:42 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB9HXfT25223 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 19:33:41 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA07707; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 12:32:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 12:32:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <9v04v0$ph7$02$1@news.t-online.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: 5l259r001@sneakemail.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: "Steffen Müller" <5l259r001@sneakemail.com> To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: A (pretty old) "new" standard for CW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: "grabek" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:slrna1752u.8ms.grabek@localhost.localdomain... | i suppose i have 20 megabytes of free space on my isp server; | i'm not sure though. i need someone to program all necessary | scripts/html pages etc. hosting hills seems not to be the problem; but | are there any willing players? Though I would be willing to help with HTML/Perl-CGI, I doubt space is the issue. Shouldn't you worry about CPU time instead? Steffen -- $_=q;0cb212c210b0bb010c0113bb0c410c0b516c0bb3d212c2b0b0b016b6cb2b2c21010c0 b41110b3bba0e0c0d2c4b2b6bc013d2c0d0b01012b0b0;;s/\n//g;s/(\d)/$1<2?$1:'0'x $1/ge;s/([a-f])/'1'x(ord($1)-97)/ge;$o=$_;push@o,substr($o,$_*8,8) for(0.. 24);for(@o){print"\0"x(26-$i).chr(oct('0b'.($_)))."\r";$i++};print"\n"#stm From corewar-l@koth.org Sun Dec 9 20:35:32 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB9IZWx01884 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 20:35:32 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB9IZVT27547 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 20:35:31 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA08165; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 13:33:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 13:33:44 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: grabek@home.sweet.home Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: grabek To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: A (pretty old) "new" standard for CW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 9 Dec 2001, Steffen Müller <5l259r001@sneakemail.com> wrote: >| i suppose i have 20 megabytes of free space on my isp server; >| i'm not sure though. i need someone to program all necessary >| scripts/html pages etc. hosting hills seems not to be the problem; but >| are there any willing players? > Though I would be willing to help with HTML/Perl-CGI, I doubt space is the > issue. Shouldn't you worry about CPU time instead? i've just sent an email to my ips with some questions. i suppose there's quite fast computer. as soon as i get the back email from them i send more details to the group. -- pozdrawiam, grabek From corewar-l@koth.org Sun Dec 9 21:30:55 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB9JUtx07113 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 21:30:55 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB9JUsO05166 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 21:30:54 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA08490; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 14:29:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 14:29:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3C13AC2C.9090703@yahoo.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: waknuk@yahoo.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Philip Thorne To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: A (pretty old) "new" standard for CW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: grabek wrote: > On 9 Dec 2001, Paul-V Khuong wrote: > > >>The kind of RPG/tutorial-esque thing was interesting. >>Like, we create hills with warrior from different >>eras(1986, 1988, 1990,1991...), and the players try to >>move from one level to another. >>The main thing is finding someone to host the hills. >> > > i suppose i have 20 megabytes of free space on my isp server; > i'm not sure though. i need someone to program all necessary > scripts/html pages etc. hosting hills seems not to be the problem; but > are there any willing players? > > Scripting and hosting isn't a problem [dev & run time though is] but even with Pizza down there are more hills than active players. What's needed is a beginners hill [1] but it seems to me we already have that and with more to come. [1] Actually that's arguable too - I saw a post from Anton in which he seemed to be saying that beginners should test/learn against a benchmark suite. The context was someone remarking that the beginner's hill seemed to be turning into a test hill for the 94hill and how that mightn't be good for beginners. Re your server - it's not enough to have space you need cgi or somewhere to run the backend and in the latter case a means to communicate with it. Re Mezzetti's suggestion - make something too realistic, why have it a game at all? E.g. if you spend your "free" time coding anti-virus software you can either do good or get paid for the same amount of trouble. Although ... games are forgiving. Philb From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Dec 10 01:32:35 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB9NWYx26519 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 01:32:34 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fB9NWYT09087 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 01:32:34 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA09959; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 18:31:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 18:31:01 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: grabek@home.sweet.home Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: grabek To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: A (pretty old) "new" standard for CW X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 09 Dec 2001 12:23:40 -0600, Philip Thorne wrote: > Re your server - it's not enough to have space you need cgi or somewhere > to run the backend and in the latter case a means to communicate with it. i also have some free disk space at my school's server. it would be easier to mantain it. > Philb -- pozdrawiam, grabek From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Dec 10 03:34:23 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBA1YMx32713 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 03:34:22 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBA1YLO07349 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 03:34:21 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA10779; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 20:32:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 20:32:44 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3C140286.16605790@libero.it> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: giorgioschi@libero.it Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Xxxxx To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: A (pretty old) "new" standard for CW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7F1298E01E99C9DC49AF0BE4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, here is the third delucidation about this strange "R.O.M.E.68000" proposal. First, it was an aborted project. It died when it was translating from the stage of "vision" to the stage of "working project"; more precisly, in the midst of writing the simulator. May be you have had a look to the online manual, and have thought that, if one writes such a long description of a system, he should also write a simulator on which the system can run. But I am a very illogic person, and I did not -- well, actually I _was_ doing it, but I left it unfinished. The manual was written partly to explain the system to some friends of mine who offered to write warriors (but never did), and partly because I was simply afraid to forget the rules, which are fairly complex, if I did not write them down in a very precise form. Don't be misleaded by the "last update" date of the web pages, too: January 1, 1999 is only when a purely mechanic translation to HTML of the fourth chapter of the manual was put online. Absolutely nothing new has happened to R.O.M.E.68000 since the beginning of 1995. Second, I wrote the previous messages only to ask for an opinion as to whether it is worth, or not, to bring this project to life again. _But_, as M Joonas Pihlaja wrote: > > [snip all] > > Do you have a simulator we could try out? I briefly browsed your > page but didn't see one. Without it you're not likely to be able > to drum up much interest or insightful discussion. Correct, of course. So, let's say that my post was premature: forget the whole thing for now, and I'll turn up again when I have the simulator working. It is not very difficult to complete it, of course, but I just don't have time to do it right now. Now that I know that at least three person will at least take it into consideration, I can finish it... :-) But -- third -- befor returning to lurking, let me send you, as an attachment, a sample warrior that I wrote for my system. Actually, it was conceived _before_ the system was designed, for the 1984/88 ICWS rules, and R.O.M.E.68000 was invented to give to this program an environment where to live, after having realized that it could never ever _ever_ be an effective warrior for "traditional" CW. Of course, it's impossible to understand in detail how the program work (it makes heavy use of the features of the multitasking environment, not described even in the manual), but one can get the general idea; in particular, one can have a feeling of what I mean by "new overall architecture". Moreover, I am a bit worried: "Oh dear" -- I am thinking -- "I've written to rec.games.corewar without even having a working simulator, and this folks seems to take things so seriously... I'd better show them everything I have..." So, my primary concern now is to prove you that I _did_ a fair amount of work before writing to you! See you again in July/August 2002... --------------7F1298E01E99C9DC49AF0BE4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="414C4641"; name="VeLePeMa.red" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Unknown Document Content-Disposition: inline; filename="VeLePeMa.red" \ \ VeLePeMa \ \ This is the second try for a serious program for the "68000 of Core War". \ \------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- \ \ STRATEGY: After initalization is complete, there are four copies of the program \ in four different places of the core, sufficiently far one from another. \ Each copy executes as a separate thread (more exactly, as a separate collection of threads). \ Let us call each copy and its associated threads a "fighting unit". \ \ All fighting units exchange messages between them, in order to prove to one another \ that they are not damaged and that they are still working correctly. Each fighting unit \ listen to the messages of all the others. When one unit stops sending messages \ (probably because it has been hit), the other ones synchronize by means of a semaphore \ to decide which one undertakes the task of regenerating the damaged unit. \ The unit is regenerated by copying the code from the "repairing" unit to the "repaired" one; \ but before doing this, the "repairing" unit kills all the threads of the "repaired" one, \ together with all of their descendants. So, if one of those threads had been captured \ by a vampire and forced to repeatedly SPLit, all the SPLitted threads are killed together \ in one shot. \ \ Moreover, each fighting unit makes another copy of its code for its private use. \ The unit continuously compares its own code with this private copy; when it finds \ a discrepancy, it does _not_ try to repair itself, but, instead, commits suicide, \ hoping that the other units will respawn it. \ \ VeLePeMa was written as a test program, not as a real warrior, so it is primarily designed \ to (try to) resist to attacks in a clever way, rather than to win. However, it does have \ a rudimentary form of attack routine, which runs as a separate thread. \ The attack routine just drops Vampire-like bombs, trying to capture the enemy's threads. \ \------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- \ \ \ Secret positions of the allied units: dist1 EQU 16384 ** substitute with three semi-random numbers ** dist2 EQU 32768 dist3 EQU 49152 \ End \ \ \ Each fighting unit has a table in which it keeps the information about the other ones. \ Actually, the table has an entry for each fighting unit, _including_ the unit it lies within. \ Each fighting unit is identified by the position of its entry in the table, which is always \ the same in all the tables (that is, unit #0 is unit #0 in the table of all the units, etc.) \ This allow to regenerate the table of a damaged unit simply by copying it from another unit \ (the pointer to the code base needs to be adjusted, however). \ \ Layout of a unit table entry: pt_cbase EQU 0 code base pt_silent EQU 1 how many other messages can be missed before the unit is considered damaged pt_guruID EQU 2 ID of parent "guru" (4 locations) pt_end EQU 6 end of entry \ \ The length of the entry is... pt_len EQU pt_end \ End \ \ \ Constants: num_prgm EQU 4 number of units (programs) in a team num1_prgm EQU num_prgm-1 dies_irae EQU 256 when to kill captured threads (cycles before end of battle) chunk EQU 32 maximum length of block of words cd_length EQU 192 code lenght of one fighting unit tb_length EQU num_prgm*pt_len total length of unit table reg_nmbr EQU 16 stacksize EQU chunk-reg_nmbr-4 filler EQU 4 a few empty locations at the end of code init_len EQU 25 length of team initialization routine space EQU 64-init_len empty locations trap_len EQU 8 trap_blnk EQU trap_len-2 sil_toler EQU 1 how many checks can remain unanswered before the unit \ which should have answered is considered faulty sil_repto EQU sil_toler as the previous item, but applies to units which have just been repaired grn_light EQU 0 red_light EQU -1 \ End \ \ \ Displacements: off_entry EQUF entry_pnt-Castle off_semap EQUF semaphore-Castle off_name EQUF name-Castle off_prtab EQUF prgm_tab-Castle off_sign EQUF signals-Castle off_repcn EQUF repcount-Castle \ End \ \ \ Other assembler directives: ENTRYAT init USEREGS reg_base \ End \ \ \ Team initialization code: init MVAD stack_top,R7 R7 will be used as the stack pointer MVAD prgm_tab,R6 R6 will point to the base of the unit table (see above) MOVE #0,R4 R4 is the index of this unit in the unit table (this will be unit #0) MOVE R4,R5 just for elegance... MVAD Castle,[R6][R5]pt_cbase SPLR new_guru,[R6][R5]pt_guruID HALT if we are not able to create the "guru"'s, we give up MOVE #num1_prgm,R0 MOVE #pt_len,R1 start from position 1 in unit table (position 0 is for this unit) init_loop JZDC exit_init,R0 MOVE topsecret[R0],[R6][R1]pt_cbase pick up from secret table the position of other units RNPT Castle,[R6][R1]pt_cbase SPLR new_guru,[R6][R1]pt_guruID HALT if we are not able to create the "guru"'s, we give up ADD #pt_len,R1 JUMP init_loop exit_init TEAM ori_team save the team identification number MOVE R4,name in every unit, "name" contains the unit number SPL entry_pnt JUMP entry_pnt emergency solution, but not good since we would remain thread zero HALT \ new_guru GURU \ topsecret STAT dist3 STAT dist2 STAT dist1 \ DB space \ End \ \ \ Code of a fighting unit: Castle entry_pnt MVAD stack_top,R7 R7 will be used as the stack pointer MVAD prgm_tab,R6 R6 will point to the base of the unit table (see above) MOVE name,R4 R4 is the index of this unit in the unit table; our index is saved in "name" MOVE R4,R5 convert the index to a displacement into the table MULT #pt_len,R5 CHGR [R6][R5]pt_guruID,semaphore we clear "semaphore" just because we must clear something... HALT if we can't find the "guru", we give up JUMP -2 if the thread exists but is not "guru", try again... MOVE #num_prgm,R0 send a message to other programs, starting from the last one in the table... tmsg_loop JZDC copy_code,R0 ... and continuing until all are done SKNE R4,R0 we skip ourselves JUMP tmsg_loop JSBR do_signal,<[R7] subroutine to send the message; also puts in R1 the index of the signalled unit MOVE #red_light,signals[R0] clear signal received from unit indexed by R0 MOVE #sil_toler,[R6][R1]pt_silent initialize the number of missing messages that can be ignored MVAD [[R6][R1]]off_repcn,R2 update repair count of this unit in the table of the signalled unit ADD R4,R2 SADIBW #1,[R2] this is inter-unit communication, so be sure to have an A.D.I. in the target MOVE repcount[R4],[R2] JUMP tmsg_loop next copy_code MVAD Castle,R2 make the private copy of the code MVAD copy,R3 MOVEBW #chunk,[R2]>,[R3]> MOVEBW #chunk,[R2]>,[R3]> ADD #chunk,R2 MOVEBW #chunk,[R2]>,[R3]> ADD #chunk,R2 MOVEBW #chunk,[R2]>,[R3]> SPL attack create attack thread (redundant comment) NOP \ main_loop MOVE #num_prgm,R0 send a message to other programs, starting from the last one in the table... sign_loop JZDC self_ctrl,R0 ... and continuing until all are done SKNE R4,R0 we skip ourselves JUMP sign_loop JSBR do_signal,<[R7] subroutine to send the message; also puts in R1 the index of the signalled unit TMOV #red_light,signals[R0] this time we also check whether we have received a message JUMP silence we haven't MOVE #sil_toler,[R6][R1]pt_silent yes, we have: reset the missing messages counter JUMP sign_loop silence JZDC faulty,[R6][R1]pt_silent can this missing message be ignored? JUMP sign_loop yes faulty TMOV #red_light,sem_rep no: set the semaphore for entering repair thread JUMP sign_loop a previous repair thread is still executing: give up MOVE R0,R8 MOVE R1,R9 SPL rep_init MOVE #grn_light,sem_rep not able to create repair thread: clear the semaphore JUMP sign_loop \ self_ctrl MVAD Castle,R2 check the integrity of our own code and data MVAD copy,R3 CMPRBW #chunk,[R2]>,[R3]> JUMP suicide CMPRBW #chunk,[R2]>,[R3]> JUMP suicide CHKDBW #chunk,[R2]> JUMP suicide CMPRBW #chunk,[R2]>,[R3]> JUMP suicide CHKDBW #chunk,[R2]> JUMP suicide CMPRBW #chunk,[R2]>,[R3]> JUMP suicide JUMP main_loop \ suicide KLLD [R6][R5]pt_guruID \ reg_base DD reg_nmbr semaphore DATA 0 name DATA 0 ori_team DATA 0 sem_rep DATA 0 stack DD stacksize stack_top N \ rep_init MOVE #sil_repto,[R6][R9]pt_silent ADD #1,repcount[R8] synchronize with other threads that might want to repair the same unit MVAD repcount[R8],RA ... obscure inter-unit communication details ... MVAD [[R6][R9]]off_semap,RB MOVEBW #1,[RA],back_sem EXGNBW #1,back_sem,[RB] CHKDBW #1,back_sem JUMP repair the semaphore itself has been damaged: go ahead and repair (with fingers crossed!) SKLO repcount[R8],back_sem according to the semaphore, is anybody else repairing the same unit? JUMP exit_rep yes, do nothing \ repair KLLD [R6][R9]pt_guruID no, it's we who must repair it MVAD Castle,RA copy this entire unit onto the damaged one... MVPT [R6][R9]pt_cbase,RB MOVEBW #chunk,[RA]>,[RB]> ... in just six cycles! MOVEBW #chunk,[RA]>,[RB]> MOVEBW #chunk,[RA]>,[RB]> MOVEBW #chunk,[RA]>,[RB]> MOVEBW #chunk,[RA]>,[RB]> MOVEBW #chunk,[RA]>,[RB]> MVPT [R6][R9]pt_cbase,RA now RA points to the base of the repaired unit MOVE R8,[RA]off_name tell the repaired unit what's its "name", that is, its index in the unit table MVAD [RA]off_prtab,RB now RB points to the unit table of the repaired unit MOVE #num_prgm,R8 for every unit... MOVE #0,R9 ... starting from the first... mvpt_loop JZDC strt_prgm,R8 MVPT [R6][R9]pt_cbase,[RB][R9]pt_cbase ... the pointer to the code base must be re-copied as a pointer ADD #pt_len,R9 JUMP mvpt_loop strt_prgm SPL [RA]off_entry start the repaired unit; it will change its "guru" by itself NOP could not start it? Ignore: it will be repaired again because it does not send messages exit_rep MOVE #grn_light,sem_rep signal that another thread can now enter the code that uses R8-RB (that is, "rep_init") HALT \ prgm_tab DD tb_length signals DD num_prgm repcount DD num_prgm \ do_signal MOVE R0,R1 MULT #pt_len,R1 MVAD [[R6][R1]]off_sign,R2 ADD R4,R2 SADIBW #1,[R2] RTN [R7]> \ attack RND RC we accept the possibility of bombing an allied unit, or even ourselves MOVEBW #trap_len,trap,[RC] MVAD test_team,[RC]1 CLCK RD SKLS #dies_irae,RD JUMP attack BLNKBW #3,cage HALT \ trap JUMP [1] DATA 0 DB trap_blnk \ test_team TEAM RE SKNE ori_team,RE did we capture one of our allied threads? HALT yes: kill it without forcing it to split cage SPL cage no JUMP cage JUMP cage \ back_sem DB 1 \ coda DB filler \ copy N where to make the private copy \ End \ \ ENDREGS \ END --------------7F1298E01E99C9DC49AF0BE4-- From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Dec 10 07:38:06 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBA5c6x10150 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:38:06 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBA5c5T17829 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:38:06 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA12346; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 00:34:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 00:34:52 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <20011209232333.07497.00001158@mb-me.aol.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: mp0werd@aol.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: mp0werd@aol.com (MP0werd) To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: succesful bombs :) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Paul-V Khuong wrote: >Now, can someone help me remember what was the >downfall of vampires? Longer code size, vulnerable to scanners, those are two I can think of. From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Dec 10 15:32:44 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBADWhx07016 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 15:32:43 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBADWgT16124 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 15:32:42 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA16332; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 08:30:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 08:30:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: foehg@max.localdomain Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Ransom Smith To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: A (pretty old) "new" standard for CW X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: I note that you've named your warrior with a .red extension. As it's not redcode, you're liable to give me a headache! :-) -- [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=5913] [foehg@burtonian.com] [http://www.koth.org/] [http://www.nethack.org/] [http://www.slashdot.org/] No, I don't Yahoo. --**([{ LIFE IS FAIR. --**-- LIVE WITH IT. }])**-- From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Dec 10 16:34:29 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBAEYSx19586 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:34:28 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBAEYRO19681 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:34:27 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA16774; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:32:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:32:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <21fc098d.0112100542.61ed940a@posting.google.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: oversby@hotmail.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: oversby@hotmail.com (Ian Oversby) To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: succesful bombs :) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Paul-V Khuong wrote in message news:<20011209144202.96780.qmail@web11604.mail.yahoo.com>... > --- grabek wrote: > [snip] > > spl 0 , 2 > > mov -1 , >-1 > > > > in my opinion it's the deadliest two-instruction > > bomb (i'm > > right, aren't i?). but it's two-instruction bomb! it > > takes much more > > time to throw that kind of bombs, so in four > > instruction loop my > > bomber can deliver just one bomb ergo it performs > > worse. There are better two instruction bombs which don't even have to land together. Check Torch by P. Kline for a good example (and maybe Behemot by Janczek for an even better one but I'm not _that_ familiar with the code) The bomb looks something like this mlin mov sbmb, >sbmb ; Some smallish number of dats sbmb spl #mlin, #mlin + 1 If I recall correctly, the reason for the number of dats being small is so that you are less likely to be caught between a mov and its related spl in which case you may be stunned yourself. > > i'd like to ask: how to make it perform better? :) > Well, the problem with silk is you have to either hit > REALLY early, or to bomb with a long carpet. That's my > personal experience, anyway. > > I had a ~60% incendiary bomber based on tornado, but > it wasn't any good VS papers. > > So, it really seems to me that... vampires(!? to use > chess notation ;) are the only option. > > You can keep your speed, and have a more effective > bomb. Plus, when compared to an incendiary bomb, the > "wasted" cycle jumping/spling to the trap isn't that > bad. > > Now, can someone help me remember what was the > downfall of vampires? fangs look like jmp pit, #ptr (or maybe jmp @0, pit). Silks that bomb with mov bmb, }x are going to wipe the pit out. Plus you still have the stunning latency problem - i.e. executing the jmp does not slow the paper down, rather executing the spl thousands of cycles later when the other paper colonies have had a go does. OTOH, they are really good against bombers wherever the fang lands. Regards, Ian From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Dec 10 18:48:35 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBAGmZx05849 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:48:35 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBAGmYT05914 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:48:34 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA17633; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:46:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:46:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <000901c18154$23d852a0$2100a8c0@HomePC> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: ff95@dial.pipex.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: "Robert Macrae" To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: succesful bombs :) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 Status: RO X-Status: > >Now, can someone help me remember what was the > >downfall of vampires? > > Longer code size, vulnerable to scanners, those are two I can think of. A Silk (effectively SPL MOV SPL MOV...) splits as fast as a SPL JMP pit, and faster than small pits that also clear. You can't stun effectively unless the stunned code splits a lot faster than the target... Vampires remain pretty effective against slower replicators. Robert Macrae From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Dec 10 18:49:46 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBAGnkx08198 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:49:46 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBAGnjT05996 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:49:45 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA17668; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:48:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:48:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200112100500.AAA04158@gevjon.ttsg.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: koth@koth.org Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Koth To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - ICWS Experimental 94 12/10/01 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Weekly Status on 12/10/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html sleep 180 Current Status of the KOTH.ORG ICWS Experimental 94 CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Tue Dec 4 13:12:00 EST 2001 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 54/ 33/ 13 Fire and Ice II David Moore 175 2 2 33/ 21/ 45 KAT v5 Dave Hillis 145 34 3 37/ 36/ 26 Black Moods Ian Oversby 139 98 4 27/ 17/ 56 Katafutr Michal Janeczek 138 42 5 40/ 43/ 17 Greetings From Asbury Par JKW 136 62 6 34/ 33/ 33 Controlled Aggression Ian Oversby 136 102 7 21/ 9/ 70 Denial David Moore 134 43 8 30/ 27/ 43 Damage Inflicted Robert Macrae 134 41 9 35/ 36/ 29 Ogre Christian Schmidt 133 50 10 19/ 8/ 73 Evol Cap 4 X John Wilkinson 131 171 11 31/ 32/ 36 Big I.F.F.S. Dave Hillis 131 31 12 24/ 21/ 55 Venom v0.2b Christian Schmidt 127 124 13 22/ 17/ 61 Kin John Metcalf 126 10 14 17/ 7/ 76 Evolve X v4.0 John Wilkinson 126 119 15 17/ 7/ 76 Black Box v1.1 JKW 126 65 16 28/ 36/ 37 test CS 120 59 17 29/ 47/ 24 Pagan John K W 111 156 18 28/ 47/ 24 clock strikes twelve John Metcalf 109 1 19 17/ 24/ 60 Purple v0.1 Christian Schmidt 109 123 20 19/ 30/ 50 Disaster Area 2.8 Stefan Foerster 109 29 21 24/ 49/ 27 Sand-Crawler John Metcalf 99 8 From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Dec 10 18:51:17 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBAGpHx08272 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:51:17 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBAGpGO15903 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:51:16 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA17716; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:49:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:49:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200112100500.AAA04162@gevjon.ttsg.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: koth@koth.org Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Koth To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - 94 No Pspace 12/10/01 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Weekly Status on 12/10/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html sleep 180 Current Status of the KOTH.ORG 94 No Pspace CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Sun Dec 9 20:16:07 EST 2001 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 44/ 40/ 15 Hazy Lazy ... Steve Gunnell 149 85 2 45/ 41/ 15 G3-b David Moore 148 13 3 35/ 23/ 42 Inky Ian Oversby 147 222 4 32/ 20/ 48 nPaper II Paul-V Khuong 145 743 5 43/ 40/ 17 Behemot Michal Janeczek 145 566 6 33/ 21/ 46 Son of Vain Oversby/Pihlaja 145 332 7 35/ 25/ 40 Quicksilver Michal Janeczek 144 505 8 45/ 48/ 7 He Scans Alone x P.Kline 141 71 9 35/ 30/ 35 Blacken Ian Oversby 139 990 10 32/ 25/ 43 Revival Fire P.Kline 139 211 11 32/ 26/ 42 Uninvited John Metcalf 138 425 12 31/ 24/ 44 Olivia Ben Ford 138 471 13 40/ 43/ 16 Eraser II Ken Espiritu 137 700 14 36/ 35/ 30 Keyser Soze Anton Marsden 137 444 15 31/ 26/ 43 Qtest Christian Schmidt 136 265 16 23/ 11/ 66 The Phantom Menace Anton Marsden 135 443 17 39/ 42/ 19 Really Frenzy Lukasz Grabun 135 5 18 39/ 44/ 16 clock strikes twelve John Metcalf 134 1 19 28/ 23/ 49 Rustle 2 Lukasz Grabun 133 2 20 27/ 22/ 50 paper/stone test simon 132 18 21 0/ 92/ 8 Inferno John Karp 8 0 From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Dec 10 18:52:49 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBAGqmx08254 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:52:48 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBAGqmO12308 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:52:48 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA17764; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:51:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:51:06 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200112100500.AAA04154@gevjon.ttsg.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: koth@koth.org Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Koth To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - MultiWarrior 94 12/10/01 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Weekly Status on 12/10/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html sleep 180 Current Status of the KOTH.ORG Multiwarrior 94 CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Sun Dec 9 20:57:33 EST 2001 # Name Author Score Age 1 D-clearM Ken Espiritu 40 87 2 test John Metcalf 39 15 3 clock strikes twelve John Metcalf 33 1 4 fclear Brian Haskin 32 71 5 Her Majesty P.Kline 29 106 6 QuiVa John Metcalf 24 180 7 Xord Monominer XOSC:01 Gino Oblena 23 26 8 sptst (4D-p) Stefan Foerster 22 4 9 8thTest Gino Oblena 19 18 10 Pitbull Christian Schmidt 15 43 11 Inferno John Karp 0 0 From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Dec 10 19:00:01 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBAH01x04140 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 19:00:01 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBAH00O26911 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 19:00:00 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA17861; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:58:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:58:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3C13C477.6040600@pipeline.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: pbt@pipeline.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Philip Thorne To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: Swamp Life? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Robert Macrae wrote: >>Things have gone quiet - is anything happening? Anyone interested? It'd >>be a shame for this to come to nothing given the interest shown by the >>old-timers :-P their continued interest is needed quite as much as fresh >>blood. >> >>Paying heed to this '98 warning from JK Lewis: >> >A word of advice on suggesting changes, unless you can both capture >> >the imagination of the group AND make the changes you suggest you can >> >never actually get change. [...] >> > >A good reminder, and warning. In my opinion there is little point >discussing the alternatives further without simulating them because >complex systems are just too hard to predict. We can't make a sensible >choice of ecosystem until we know (at least in outline) how it will differ >from what we have. I should be able to do a suitable simulation, but I >will not have time to implement it until Christmas and maybe not then. If >anyone else is keen, mail me and lets discuss it! > >Robert Macrae > I suspect the reply was meant to be to the group and not me (with a little help from Mozillla I messed-up my first post) so hope you don't mind my sending it here. I was thinking more along the lines of whether anything had been done and discussing what, if anything, could be done to assist implemement any changes that had been decided upon. For example, like everyone else here, I can program and have a PC - so, for example, if there was a need to run batches of battles for experimentation could help, or could try to code/test or possibly assist find/setup a web-site or lessor server, time permitting (*sigh* don't you love that!). If all's well / taken care of so much the better - I really ought to make time to write redcode. For me christmas vacation is likely to mean little or no internet access. On the plus side at leats one (260MHz) computer would be available for (remote) use if wanted. And I do have a few days before Christmas too, although they're likely to be fraught. === I'm a little dissapointed to see nothing here compared with say 14 messages re 'a (pretty old) "new" standard...' Philb From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Dec 10 21:31:54 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBAJVsx27625 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 21:31:54 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBAJVrO18511 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 21:31:53 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA18944; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:30:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:30:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: grabek@zodiac.mimuw.edu.pl Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Lukasz Grabun To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: hosting new hills X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: i've got respond from my isp. i'm not happy to announce that my isp doesn't have perl and python installed so one cannot use scripts. on the other hand i mentioned there was a possibility to make such a server/host on server in my school. i have sth about 20-25 mbs of free space and server is quite fast, as i suppose (get online and check yourself: rainbow.mimuw.edu.pl). the only problem as i had said before is the software side of the project. if there is someone who is willing to maintain the site, i'll gladly put all the data on my account. -- '' do zobaczenia. grabek From corewar-l@koth.org Tue Dec 11 00:39:54 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBAMdrx15101 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:39:53 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBAMdrT26939 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:39:53 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA20356; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 17:38:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 17:38:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <006e01c181b9$b4309460$2100a8c0@HomePC> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: ff95@dial.pipex.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: "Robert Macrae" To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: Swamp Life? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 Status: RO X-Status: > I suspect the reply was meant to be to the group and not me (with a > little help from Mozillla I messed-up my first post) so hope you don't > mind my sending it here. Thanks! > I was thinking more along the lines of whether anything had been done > and discussing what, if anything, could be done to assist implemement > any changes that had been decided upon. I think we are still enmeshed in the decision process. A promising area of development has been outlined but until we have a better idea what the various proposals would achieve I think it is a bit early to implement a hill. > For example, like everyone else here, I can program and have a PC - so, > for example, if there was a need to run batches of battles for > experimentation could help, or could try to code/test or possibly assist > find/setup a web-site or lessor server, time permitting (*sigh* don't > you love that!). If all's well / taken care of so much the better - I > really ought to make time to write redcode. Unlike most people here, I can't write C. However, I have some ideas on the kind of simulation required to test these ideas that I may eventually implement in Pascal. The key idea is to simulate a server that enforces the various swamp structure rules, simulate a pool of redcoders who submit warriors to it, and observe the resulting population of warriors that inhabit the swamp. For the purposes of this simulation, warriors can be abstracted to just their scores against each other and I planned to read in a matrix of scores from 20-100 representative warriors say half from the top of Koenigstuhl (representing the efforts of the resident experts) and half from somewhat lower down (beginners). Redcoder behaviour can probably be simplified to selecting a warrior at random from the pool and submitting it wherever it in whatever form will score highest. This requires some analysis when choices of prey are available but only a small searchspace is involved. It might in theory be desirable to perturb the scores a little to represent small changes in the code but I doubt this is actually required for our purposes here. Server simulation will naturally depend on the details of the swamp rules but it is not particularly difficult. Evaluation of the results will be interesting and complex. Personally, I can already think of two related but distinct criteria by which I would evaluate the success of the project: 1) The swamp should develop an inhomogenous character -- differenent types of warrior congregating in different areas -- even if it starts with random conents and the redcoders aim simply to maximise score. In my opinion this would add richness, and it should also help with the main objective, which is 2) It must be possible for inferior warriors to make it into the swamp. On the current hills only the very best can survive and we definitely need an environment that exerts a less crushing selective pressure. Others presumably have their own objectives, and others will inevitably occurr to whoever runs the simulation because the ultimate test is an even more complex one: will the environment be rewarding for the real population of redcoders? So far, we have kicked around several variants of the basic swamp idea and I think the next step is to test them. If any of them can be shown to work in terms of the above criteria I'd back it... Robert Macrae From corewar-l@koth.org Tue Dec 11 01:35:15 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBANZFx22670 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 01:35:15 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBANZEO31741 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 01:35:14 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA20773; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:33:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:33:48 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <9v3d47$gn6$1@kenny.mimuw.edu.pl> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: arekp@ds2.uw.edu.pl Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Arek Paterek To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: hosting new hills Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Lukasz Grabun wrote: > i have sth about 20-25 mbs of free space and server is quite fast, > as i suppose (get online and check yourself: rainbow.mimuw.edu.pl). the > only problem as i had said before is the software side of the project. if > there is someone who is willing to maintain the site, i'll gladly put all > the data on my account. Je¶li chodzi o sprawy programistyczne, jak np. pisanie i poprawianie skryptów albo zmuszenie serwera do dzia³ania, to ja chêtnie pomogê (jestem na informatyce, MIMUW, III rok). -- Arek Paterek From corewar-l@koth.org Tue Dec 11 16:32:24 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBBEWNx15962 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:32:23 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBBEWMO18499 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:32:22 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA27406; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:30:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:30:02 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: grabek@home.sweet.home Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: grabek To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: airbag check (any number of instructions) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: is this kind of airbag check that was mentioned two weeks ago connected somehow with a number of instructions in the loop? in other words: is it possible to make such a check in a loop with any number of instructions (five for example)? -- pozdrawiam, grabek From corewar-l@koth.org Tue Dec 11 18:33:46 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBBGXkx31922 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:33:46 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBBGXjO32206 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:33:45 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA28118; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:32:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:32:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <92b0a3d6.0112110713.7c97f567@posting.google.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: pk6811s@acad.drake.edu Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: pk6811s@acad.drake.edu (P. Kline) To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: succesful bombs :) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: > > >Now, can someone help me remember what was the > > >downfall of vampires? As Robert said, silk replicators split too fast. They also often bomb using a-increment which destroys pits whenever they point to a fang: fang jmp pit,x-pit silk mov bmb,}fang and there are lots of fangs to be found if the vampire is at all efficient :-) I might point out that by throwing lots of pointers to the pit was an Achille's heel for vampires long before a-increment and silk. A somewhat more resistant variety of vamp looks like this: pit equ vamp-2000 fang jmp @pit,0 vamp spl #incr,-incr mov vamp ,; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:35:00 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBBGYxT26222 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:34:59 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA28139; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:33:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:33:34 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <92b0a3d6.0112110728.5b432fd4@posting.google.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: pk6811s@acad.drake.edu Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: pk6811s@acad.drake.edu (P. Kline) To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: Swamp Life? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: > >>Paying heed to this '98 warning from JK Lewis: > >> >A word of advice on suggesting changes, unless you can both capture > >> >the imagination of the group AND make the changes you suggest you can > >> >never actually get change. [...] Yup, that is reality. > >A good reminder, and warning. In my opinion there is little point > >discussing the alternatives further without simulating them because > >complex systems are just too hard to predict. We can't make a sensible > >choice of ecosystem until we know (at least in outline) how it will differ > >from what we have. I should be able to do a suitable simulation, but I > >will not have time to implement it until Christmas and maybe not then. If > >anyone else is keen, mail me and lets discuss it! Christmas brings other projects for me, so sad. I liked the food list analogy, but it is probably fraught with confusion since it is too easy to disguise warriors. The big swamp idea merits experimentation, just select warriors randomly from the archives to seed it, then run new ones a few times each at different locations, it might settle out with identifiable populations dominating various areas. Here is another idea. Submit all warriors in pairs, sort of a tag-team approach. Every battle involves four programs, two to a side, and a win requires killing both opponent programs. Paul Kline pk6811s@acad.drake.edu From corewar-l@koth.org Wed Dec 12 04:31:24 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBC2VOx10502 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 04:31:24 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBC2VNT27540 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 04:31:23 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA01960; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:29:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:29:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <20011211201557.19372.00001617@mb-fe.aol.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: mp0werd@aol.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: mp0werd@aol.com (MP0werd) To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: airbag check (any number of instructions) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: grabek wrote: > is this kind of airbag check that was mentioned two weeks ago >connected somehow with a number of instructions in the loop? in other >words: is it possible to make such a check in a loop with any number >of instructions (five for example)? So long as the two+ airbag processes are in lockstep, it works. The only problem that may occur with longer loops is that the airbag is not checked as quickly leaving a bigger window of opportunity for a bomber. From corewar-l@koth.org Wed Dec 12 20:22:57 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBCIMvx22045 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:22:57 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBCIMuT06794 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:22:56 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA09000; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:20:24 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:20:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: jpihlaja@cc.helsinki.fi Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: M Joonas Pihlaja To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: CW on usenet & tournament idea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: In case you haven't found out already, Google has added usenet posts dating from 1981 to its archives (woohoo!) and hence all of r.g.c. is archived there. The earliest CW related is to net.sources with a redcode simulator for Dewdney's original instruction set just a month after the article appeared: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1663%40sdccs6.UUCP&output=gplain Google's announcement and some fascinating usenet archeology at: http://www.google.com/googlegroups/archive_announce_20.html Who wants to have a tournament with that instruction set? If there's enough interest, I could hack support for it into the pmars source tree, provided someone else can compile & verify for various non-Unix platforms. Or alternately, we could use the simulator posted to net.sources. Regards, Joonas From corewar-l@koth.org Wed Dec 12 20:31:28 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBCIVRx08713 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:31:27 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBCIVQO25770 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:31:26 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA09092; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:28:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:28:39 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <20011211223130.22719.qmail@web11605.mail.yahoo.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: paul_virak_khuong@yahoo.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Paul-V Khuong To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: airbag check (any number of instructions) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: --- grabek wrote: > is this kind of airbag check that was mentioned two > weeks ago > connected somehow with a number of instructions in > the loop? in other > words: is it possible to make such a check in a loop > with any number > of instructions (five for example)? IMHO, yes. All you need is the ability to use jmn/jmz as the branching instruction, and then you only have to make sure to always reset the "check cell". __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com From corewar-l@koth.org Thu Dec 13 00:32:14 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBCMWDx01934 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:32:13 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBCMWDO09524 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:32:13 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA10675; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:30:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:30:39 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3c17d2cb.17819686@news.actcom.co.il> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: bruck@actcom.co.il Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: bruck@actcom.co.il (Uri Bruck) To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: Swamp Homogeneity, a design-oriented critique 8-) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: pk6811s@acad.drake.edu (P. Kline) wrote: >does that encourage diversity? I think in biology massive imperfect copying encouraged diversity From corewar-l@koth.org Thu Dec 13 00:33:34 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBCMXYx02922 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:33:34 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBCMXXT26763 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:33:33 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA10707; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:32:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:32:04 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3c17cac6.15766249@news.actcom.co.il> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: bruck@actcom.co.il Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: bruck@actcom.co.il (Uri Bruck) To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: Changing the Game X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: quicktransit@aol.com (QuickTransit) wrote: >What I'm getting at is, the key aspects of "ideal Corewar" need to be >identified and put together in one place, and the key aspects of "frustrating >newbie-unfriendly unfun Corewar" need to be identified and put together in >another place, and based on those two things, it should be possible to put >together a better Corewar. Why should there be an "ideal Corewar"? There already are parameters that can be chosen for a game, like core size. Why can't corware become a family of closely related games? From corewar-l@koth.org Thu Dec 13 00:35:00 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBCMZ0x30610 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:35:00 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBCMYwO26168 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:34:58 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA10748; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:33:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:33:28 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: grabek@home.sweet.home Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: grabek To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: airbag check (any number of instructions) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: On 12 Dec 2001 01:15:57 GMT, MP0werd wrote: > So long as the two+ airbag processes are in lockstep, it works. The only > problem that may occur with longer loops is that the airbag is not checked as > quickly leaving a bigger window of opportunity for a bomber. i think i was misunderstood. what i meant was not sth like loop1 with increament check dat loop2 with decreament but rather _one_ loop with multiple processes executing it. i know it can be done for four instruction loop. but what about bigger loops? -- pozdrawiam, grabek From corewar-l@koth.org Thu Dec 13 00:36:28 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBCMaRx04142 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:36:27 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBCMaRO03384 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:36:27 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA10785; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:34:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:34:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3c17cb97.15975394@news.actcom.co.il> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: bruck@actcom.co.il Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: bruck@actcom.co.il (Uri Bruck) To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: Changing the Game X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: pk6811s@acad.drake.edu (P. Kline) wrote: >Following up to QuickTransit(?): > >> > But is it "brilliant" in terms of making a FUN GAME? > >Hobby might be a better term, you want people to adopt and stay >with it for a long time, not drop in for a single tournament. > >> > I mean absolutely no offense to anybody involved here, but this looks to me >> > like a bad idea that has been swallowed hook, line, and sinker, without any >> > of the kind of critical design-oriented thought that SHOULD be going on. > >Well, this is a discussion group, you can frame the conversation any >way you like. > I'll try to throw some ideas around these assertions. How about 2d corware? Instead of having a line as the playing field, arrange the memory locations on a 2d field - topologically a torus. The pointer direction for any given process could advance either along the X axis, or along the Y axis A couple of new instruction may be needed, to split to a process on the other axis, or simply to change axis. >I'll make some assertions to push things along: > > 1. The basic activities of Corewar: study, coding, testing, playing > good competition, inventing, sharing, and ever-available competition > are FUN. I think that idea preserves that > 2. The vast collection of historical programs is an asset, > in the same way records of vintage games are to chess. Adopting > a new paradigm that invalidates them would create a NEW game > distinct from Corewar. All existing programs would work, they'd simply continue running a long a single line of the plane. They would be only be disadvantaged when pitted against programs that use both axes. > 3. Changing the instruction set initiates a period of innovation > followed by optimization and stagnation. With the 2d thing I'd say, start with a 2d version of the older rules > 4. Hiding source code discourages newcomers and long-time players. > 5. The Hills as structured tend to stagnation because 'different' > programs are crowded out by a few highly optimized types. As a completely separate idea from the 2d idea, try a hill with two (or more) levels. All warriors are submitted only to level I The top 1 or 2 warriors from level I are automatically submitted to the level II hill (if they make it there, then they leave the level I hill, if they don't, they just stay put). Warriors dropped from the level II hill drop to the level I hill. This kind of potential of upwards mobility might open the hill for more warriors. > 6. The ability to select, however imperfectly, which programs are > battled would enable a greater variety of types to exist. > 7. The ability to select, however imperfectly, which programs are > battled would absolutely prevent the kind of stagnation that has > been encountered in the past and present Hills, though there may > be another kind that we don't know about yet. > >Let's see how these do for a start. My feeling is that the discussion >needs to stay in the open forum for a while before going to the intensive >implementation stage conducted by 4-5 people in a chat room. It's a slow >process, my posts and all their followups don't appear until the next day, >but I don't mind because it gives time for rethinking. > >Paul Kline >pk6811s@acad.drake.edu From corewar-l@koth.org Thu Dec 13 01:31:57 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBCNVvx08618 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 01:31:57 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBCNVuO00921 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 01:31:56 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA11254; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:30:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:30:25 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: fordbc@hotmail.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: "Benjamin Ford" To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: airbag check (any number of instructions) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: From: grabek >On 12 Dec 2001 01:15:57 GMT, MP0werd wrote: > > So long as the two+ airbag processes are in lockstep, it works. The only > > problem that may occur with longer loops is that the airbag is not >checked as > > quickly leaving a bigger window of opportunity for a bomber. > > i think i was misunderstood. what i meant was not sth like > > loop1 with increament > > check dat > > loop2 with decreament > > but rather _one_ loop with multiple processes executing it. i >know it can be done for four instruction loop. but what about bigger >loops? Any size instruction loop works. For a n-instruction loop, you need n+1 processes in it. Or, if you want to run a loop backwards, you can use n-1 processes. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From corewar-l@koth.org Fri Dec 14 02:35:53 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBE0Zqx10248 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 02:35:52 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBE0ZpO09427 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 02:35:51 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA21743; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:33:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:33:48 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: mooredav@mac.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: David Matthew Moore To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Proposal B X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Here's a different idea that would be easier to implement: Eliminate MOV.I so that MOV can only be used to copy a-field and b-field numbers. Introduce another opcode: CCO ("Copy COde" or "Carbon Copy Opcode"). CCO copies the source opcode and addressing modes to the destination. For example, a bomber could use CCO to convert core locations to DAT $, $ without changing their data. You could stun an opponent by changing all of its instructions to SPL #, #. Imps will vanish. Silk replicators remain, but they do more work to copy: spl 1, 0 spl 1, 0 spl 1, 0 cco silk, }silk cco @silk+step, *silk+step ; etc. Other mobile warriors such as bomb dodgers and CLP remain strong because they don't have to kill imp spirals, which is the job that most limits the designs or usefulness of mobile warriors. Also, authors are less likely to write traditional core clears. Without the need for a gate, there are a lot of options. Finally, here's some sample code for a .5c SPL/JMP bomber followed by a single-pass DAT clear: top cco s, >p cco j, @p mov.f j, @p p seq.i first+(2*step), @first sub.f d, p add.f s, p djn top, #333 s spl #(3*step), (3*step)-1 cco 2, <-2 j jmp -1, step-1 d dat 2*step, 2*step -- David Moore mooredav@mac.com From corewar-l@koth.org Fri Dec 14 02:37:28 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBE0bSx12774 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 02:37:28 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBE0bRT14148 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 02:37:27 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA21783; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:35:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:35:54 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: mooredav@mac.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: David Matthew Moore To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Proposal A X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Offense vs. Defense. One mobile warrior invading another's home turf. Suppose that you have two cores. Warrior A begins in core A and warrior B begins in core B. The invasion begins with two new opcodes: MOT (Move OTher) and JOT (Jump OTher). MOT copies something from the current core to the other core. JOT jumps to the other core. Both cores have size 2520 (divisible by every number up to 10). The maximum # of processes is 10. There are no strong imp spirals. A program has only one queue for both cores, so hitting a SPL 0 trap may injure its performance in the other core. The warrior loses when it has no more processes left in its home core. There's not much point to DAT killing enemy processes in your home core. You could just use JMP 0 to hold them there. To encourage programs to make the leap to enemy space, instead of running all of their operations in home core, the addressing works a little differently for MOT and JOT. It's designed to prevent efficient bombing of enemy core from home. For MOT and JOT, addressing works in a space of MAXLENGTH (100) cells instead of CORESIZE. So they can only refer to addresses PC-49 through PC+50 (where PC is the program counter, the cell # that contains the MOT/JOT). MOT @60, @60 would be equivalent to: MOT @-40, @-40 if the data at -40 is: DAT #-10, #55 then the source cell would be PC-40-10 == PC+50. the destination cell (in the other core) would be PC-40+55 == PC+15. Thus MOT cannot be used to bomb the other core unless the MOT runs within 50 cells of the destination address. It remains an effective way to boot code into the hostile core. However, it's inefficient to bomb from a different core, except perhaps with a replicator. Warriors must choose which processes must stay home on defense and which can be spared for the invasion. A variation: start a team of two in core A vs. another team in core B. A team fights on until both members are gone from their home core. -- David Moore mooredav@mac.com From corewar-l@koth.org Fri Dec 14 05:33:04 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBE3X3x24439 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 05:33:03 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBE3X3T26022 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 05:33:03 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA22875; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 22:31:29 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 22:31:29 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3C196549.4FC92B7@epix.net> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: internut@epix.net Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Nathan McKenzie To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: Proposal B MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: If you remove mov.i, you'll destroy the entire imp population which many programs depend on. Not to mention the fact that many programs(imp or non imp) would not function without mov.i. And, it would(for the Core War history's sake, and all the tutorials that involve the imp) hurt Core War more than help. However, you could add something like *.p (mov.p 0, 1?) to preserve the existing instruction fields that were there before you moved that instruction, but do keep the mov.i. Brandon McKenzie David Matthew Moore wrote: > Here's a different idea that would be easier to implement: > > Eliminate MOV.I so that MOV can only be used to copy a-field > and b-field numbers. > > Introduce another opcode: CCO ("Copy COde" or "Carbon Copy Opcode"). > CCO copies the source opcode and addressing modes to the > destination. > > For example, a bomber could use CCO to convert core locations > to DAT $, $ without changing their data. You could stun > an opponent by changing all of its instructions to SPL #, #. > > Imps will vanish. > > Silk replicators remain, but they do more work to copy: > > spl 1, 0 > spl 1, 0 > spl 1, 0 > > cco > silk spl step+8, 8 > mov.f >silk, }silk > cco @silk+step, *silk+step > > ; etc. > > Other mobile warriors such as bomb dodgers and CLP remain strong > because they don't have to kill imp spirals, which is the job > that most limits the designs or usefulness of mobile warriors. > > Also, authors are less likely to write traditional core clears. > Without the need for a gate, there are a lot of options. > > Finally, here's some sample code for a .5c SPL/JMP bomber > followed by a single-pass DAT clear: > > top cco s, >p > cco j, @p > mov.f j, @p > p seq.i first+(2*step), @first > sub.f d, p > add.f s, p > djn top, #333 > s spl #(3*step), (3*step)-1 > cco 2, <-2 > j jmp -1, step-1 > d dat 2*step, 2*step > > -- > David Moore > mooredav@mac.com From corewar-l@koth.org Fri Dec 14 05:34:33 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBE3YXx19576 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 05:34:33 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBE3YWT26126 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 05:34:32 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA22902; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 22:32:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 22:32:56 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3C19675D.28B4AEB5@epix.net> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: internut@epix.net Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Nathan McKenzie To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: Proposal A MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Instead of two cores, try dividing the core between competing programs, if a process is running in its home area, it will follow two instructions before the turn for that process is over, giving it an advantage over invading processes, which will go at the normal 1 instruction at a time. Brandon McKenzie David Matthew Moore wrote: > Offense vs. Defense. One mobile warrior invading another's > home turf. > > Suppose that you have two cores. Warrior A begins in core A > and warrior B begins in core B. > > The invasion begins with two new opcodes: MOT (Move OTher) > and JOT (Jump OTher). MOT copies something from the current core > to the other core. JOT jumps to the other core. > > Both cores have size 2520 (divisible by every number up to 10). > The maximum # of processes is 10. There are no strong imp spirals. > > A program has only one queue for both cores, so hitting > a SPL 0 trap may injure its performance in the other core. > The warrior loses when it has no more processes left > in its home core. > > There's not much point to DAT killing enemy processes > in your home core. You could just use JMP 0 to hold them there. > > To encourage programs to make the leap to enemy space, > instead of running all of their operations in home core, > the addressing works a little differently for MOT and JOT. > It's designed to prevent efficient bombing of enemy core > from home. > > For MOT and JOT, addressing works in a space of MAXLENGTH (100) > cells instead of CORESIZE. So they can only refer to addresses > PC-49 through PC+50 (where PC is the program counter, > the cell # that contains the MOT/JOT). > > MOT @60, @60 > > would be equivalent to: > > MOT @-40, @-40 > > if the data at -40 is: > > DAT #-10, #55 > > then the source cell would be PC-40-10 == PC+50. > the destination cell (in the other core) would be > PC-40+55 == PC+15. > > Thus MOT cannot be used to bomb the other core unless > the MOT runs within 50 cells of the destination address. > It remains an effective way to boot code into the hostile core. > However, it's inefficient to bomb from a different core, > except perhaps with a replicator. > > Warriors must choose which processes must stay home on defense > and which can be spared for the invasion. > > A variation: start a team of two in core A vs. another team > in core B. A team fights on until both members are gone from > their home core. > > -- > David Moore > mooredav@mac.com From corewar-l@koth.org Sat Dec 15 14:34:11 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBFCYBx18172 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 14:34:11 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBFCYAO29641 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 14:34:10 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA07875; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 07:32:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 07:32:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: grabek@home.sweet.home Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: grabek To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: Proposal B X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 13 Dec 2001 23:18:05 GMT, David Matthew Moore wrote: > Eliminate MOV.I so that MOV can only be used to copy a-field > and b-field numbers. > Introduce another opcode: CCO ("Copy COde" or "Carbon Copy Opcode"). > CCO copies the source opcode and addressing modes to the > destination. i like the idea; but why removing mov.i opcode? maybe just introducing new cco opcode would be enough? guys, i'm keen on hosting new hills but i got to know what should be hosted :))) -- pozdrawiam, grabek From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Dec 17 16:35:49 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBHEZmx19704 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:35:48 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBHEZkO11709 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:35:46 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA27724; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:30:57 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:30:57 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: fordbc@hotmail.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: "Benjamin Ford" To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: Proposal B Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: I belive the idea of it was to destroy the imp population. It would be set up as its own hill anyways, so it would affect anything that is already out there. I woouldn't mind the loss of imps too much. Instead of having papers just tying stones, they would have a good shot a beating stones likes they are supposed to in the rock-paper-siccors setup. From: Nathan McKenzie > If you remove mov.i, you'll destroy the entire imp population which >many programs depend on. >Not to mention the fact that many programs(imp or non imp) would not >function without mov.i. And, it would(for the Core War history's sake, >and all the tutorials that involve the imp) hurt Core War more than >help. > > However, you could add something like *.p (mov.p 0, 1?) to preserve >the existing instruction fields that were there before you moved that >instruction, but do keep the mov.i. > > >Brandon McKenzie > >David Matthew Moore wrote: > > > Here's a different idea that would be easier to implement: > > > > Eliminate MOV.I so that MOV can only be used to copy a-field > > and b-field numbers. > > > > Introduce another opcode: CCO ("Copy COde" or "Carbon Copy Opcode"). > > CCO copies the source opcode and addressing modes to the > > destination. > > > > For example, a bomber could use CCO to convert core locations > > to DAT $, $ without changing their data. You could stun > > an opponent by changing all of its instructions to SPL #, #. > > > > Imps will vanish. > > > > Silk replicators remain, but they do more work to copy: > > > > spl 1, 0 > > spl 1, 0 > > spl 1, 0 > > > > cco > > > silk spl step+8, 8 > > mov.f >silk, }silk > > cco @silk+step, *silk+step > > > > ; etc. > > > > Other mobile warriors such as bomb dodgers and CLP remain strong > > because they don't have to kill imp spirals, which is the job > > that most limits the designs or usefulness of mobile warriors. > > > > Also, authors are less likely to write traditional core clears. > > Without the need for a gate, there are a lot of options. > > > > Finally, here's some sample code for a .5c SPL/JMP bomber > > followed by a single-pass DAT clear: > > > > top cco s, >p > > cco j, @p > > mov.f j, @p > > p seq.i first+(2*step), @first > > sub.f d, p > > add.f s, p > > djn top, #333 > > s spl #(3*step), (3*step)-1 > > cco 2, <-2 > > j jmp -1, step-1 > > d dat 2*step, 2*step > > > > -- > > David Moore > > mooredav@mac.com > _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Dec 17 16:37:05 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBHEb5x05371 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:37:05 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBHEb3O08793 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:37:04 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA27772; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:33:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:33:56 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: fordbc@hotmail.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: "Benjamin Ford" To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: Proposal B Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: From: David Matthew Moore >Here's a different idea that would be easier to implement: > >Eliminate MOV.I so that MOV can only be used to copy a-field >and b-field numbers. Isn't MOV the only instruction that does anything different with the .i modifier? So you could just as easily just remove that. >Introduce another opcode: CCO ("Copy COde" or "Carbon Copy Opcode"). >CCO copies the source opcode and addressing modes to the >destination. Sounds like an interesting idea that would really shake things up. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Dec 17 16:44:40 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBHEiex05651 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:44:40 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBHEidO21624 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:44:39 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA27921; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:41:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:41:28 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200112170500.AAA14244@gevjon.ttsg.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: koth@koth.org Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Koth To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - 94 No Pspace 12/17/01 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Weekly Status on 12/17/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html sleep 180 Current Status of the KOTH.ORG 94 No Pspace CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Sun Dec 16 05:27:59 EST 2001 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 42/ 41/ 17 Hazy Lazy ... Steve Gunnell 143 85 2 31/ 20/ 50 nPaper II Paul-V Khuong 142 743 3 41/ 42/ 18 G3-b David Moore 140 13 4 40/ 41/ 19 Behemot Michal Janeczek 139 566 5 31/ 23/ 46 Inky Ian Oversby 138 222 6 29/ 21/ 50 Son of Vain Oversby/Pihlaja 136 332 7 43/ 50/ 7 He Scans Alone x P.Kline 135 71 8 30/ 25/ 44 Quicksilver Michal Janeczek 135 505 9 31/ 30/ 39 Blacken Ian Oversby 131 990 10 37/ 44/ 18 Eraser II Ken Espiritu 130 700 11 28/ 26/ 46 Revival Fire P.Kline 130 211 12 27/ 24/ 48 Olivia Ben Ford 130 471 13 28/ 26/ 46 Uninvited John Metcalf 129 425 14 32/ 36/ 32 Keyser Soze Anton Marsden 128 444 15 36/ 44/ 20 Really Frenzy Lukasz Grabun 128 5 16 19/ 11/ 70 The Phantom Menace Anton Marsden 127 443 17 26/ 26/ 47 Qtest Christian Schmidt 127 265 18 35/ 46/ 19 clock strikes twelve John Metcalf 125 1 19 23/ 23/ 53 Rustle 2 Lukasz Grabun 124 2 20 23/ 23/ 54 paper/stone test simon 124 18 21 12/ 20/ 68 Bicarb Test A 28 Steve Gunnell 105 0 From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Dec 17 16:46:14 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBHEkDx10542 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:46:13 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBHEkBO05250 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:46:12 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA27946; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:42:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:42:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200112170500.AAA14237@gevjon.ttsg.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: koth@koth.org Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Koth To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - ICWS Experimental 94 12/17/01 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Weekly Status on 12/17/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html sleep 180 Current Status of the KOTH.ORG ICWS Experimental 94 CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Thu Dec 13 22:49:10 EST 2001 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 55/ 33/ 12 Fire and Ice II David Moore 177 2 2 35/ 21/ 44 KAT v5 Dave Hillis 150 34 3 30/ 16/ 54 Katafutr Michal Janeczek 144 42 4 38/ 35/ 27 Black Moods Ian Oversby 142 98 5 36/ 31/ 33 Controlled Aggression Ian Oversby 141 102 6 41/ 42/ 17 Greetings From Asbury Par JKW 139 62 7 24/ 8/ 68 Denial David Moore 139 43 8 22/ 8/ 70 Evol Cap 4 X John Wilkinson 137 171 9 31/ 26/ 43 Damage Inflicted Robert Macrae 137 41 10 36/ 35/ 28 Ogre Christian Schmidt 137 50 11 25/ 14/ 61 Kin John Metcalf 135 10 12 33/ 32/ 35 Big I.F.F.S. Dave Hillis 134 31 13 25/ 20/ 55 Venom v0.2b Christian Schmidt 131 124 14 18/ 7/ 75 Evolve X v4.0 John Wilkinson 129 119 15 18/ 7/ 74 Black Box v1.1 JKW 129 65 16 29/ 35/ 36 test CS 123 59 17 32/ 44/ 24 Pagan John K W 120 156 18 19/ 23/ 58 Purple v0.1 Christian Schmidt 116 123 19 21/ 27/ 51 Disaster Area 2.8 Stefan Foerster 115 29 20 30/ 46/ 24 clock strikes twelve John Metcalf 113 1 21 0/ 83/ 17 Inferno II John Karp 17 0 From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Dec 17 16:47:10 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBHEl9x21842 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:47:09 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBHEl8O15181 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:47:08 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA27991; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:44:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:44:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200112170500.AAA14227@gevjon.ttsg.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: koth@koth.org Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Koth To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - Standard 12/17/01 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Weekly Status on 12/17/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html sleep 180 Current Status of the KOTH.ORG Standard KotH CoreWar Hill : Last battle concluded at : Mon Nov 26 06:27:17 EST 2001 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 34/ 20/ 46 Freight Train David Moore 149 79 2 32/ 20/ 48 Test Alexander (Sasha) Wa 145 18 3 32/ 20/ 48 Guardian Ian Oversby 143 78 4 32/ 21/ 47 sIMPly.Red v0.95 Leonardo Humberto 143 36 5 34/ 27/ 39 vala John Metcalf 142 1 6 41/ 44/ 15 Foggy Swamp Beppe Bezzi 137 75 7 36/ 36/ 27 PacMan David Moore 137 108 8 38/ 40/ 22 Stasis David Moore 136 186 9 40/ 44/ 16 Blur '88 Anton Marsden 136 116 10 25/ 16/ 59 EV Paper John K Wilkinson 134 92 11 26/ 19/ 55 Jinglo John Metcalf 133 3 12 25/ 19/ 56 Test I Ian Oversby 132 135 13 39/ 46/ 15 Iron Gate Wayne Sheppard 132 404 14 35/ 39/ 26 Tangle Trap David Moore 132 152 15 27/ 22/ 51 Shish-Ka-Bob Ben Ford 131 34 16 39/ 47/ 14 ig Wayne Sheppard 130 6 17 25/ 20/ 55 Evoltmp 88 John K W 130 129 18 36/ 43/ 21 Beholder's Eye V1.7 W. Mintardjo 130 354 19 14/ 3/ 82 ]enigma[ Michal Janeczek 126 7 20 28/ 32/ 39 Frog Sticker P.Kline 124 28 21 16/ 77/ 7 Dataimp BN 55 0 From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Dec 17 16:49:37 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBHEnbx20718 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:49:37 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBHEnaO27864 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:49:36 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA28034; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:45:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:45:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200112170500.AAA14231@gevjon.ttsg.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: koth@koth.org Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Koth To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - MultiWarrior 94 12/17/01 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: Weekly Status on 12/17/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html sleep 180 Current Status of the KOTH.ORG Multiwarrior 94 CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Sun Dec 9 20:57:33 EST 2001 # Name Author Score Age 1 D-clearM Ken Espiritu 40 87 2 test John Metcalf 39 15 3 clock strikes twelve John Metcalf 33 1 4 fclear Brian Haskin 32 71 5 Her Majesty P.Kline 29 106 6 QuiVa John Metcalf 24 180 7 Xord Monominer XOSC:01 Gino Oblena 23 26 8 sptst (4D-p) Stefan Foerster 22 4 9 8thTest Gino Oblena 19 18 10 Pitbull Christian Schmidt 15 43 11 Inferno John Karp 0 0 From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Dec 17 18:32:28 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBHGWRx10901 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:32:27 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBHGWQT23378 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:32:26 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA28721; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:29:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:29:13 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: grabek@zodiac.mimuw.edu.pl Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Lukasz Grabun To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: Proposal B X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: On 17 Dec 2001 09:35:19 -0500, Benjamin Ford wrote: >>Introduce another opcode: CCO ("Copy COde" or "Carbon Copy Opcode"). >>CCO copies the source opcode and addressing modes to the >>destination. > > Sounds like an interesting idea that would really shake things up. i wonder whether this woudln't make paper the best warrior of all; let's see: no incendiary bombing, no two instruction traps, just pure spl carpets which are not very effective against paper. -- '' do zobaczenia. grabek From corewar-l@koth.org Mon Dec 17 20:56:43 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBHIugx28772 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:56:42 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBHIufO10922 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:56:41 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA29635; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:54:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:54:52 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: fordbc@hotmail.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: "Benjamin Ford" To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: Proposal B Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: From: Lukasz Grabun >On 17 Dec 2001 09:35:19 -0500, Benjamin Ford wrote: > > >>Introduce another opcode: CCO ("Copy COde" or "Carbon Copy Opcode"). > >>CCO copies the source opcode and addressing modes to the > >>destination. > > > > Sounds like an interesting idea that would really shake things up. > > i wonder whether this woudln't make paper the best warrior of all; >let's see: no incendiary bombing, no two instruction traps, just pure spl >carpets which are not very effective against paper. Paper takes a big blow itself since it takes twice as long to copy itself, as well as making the paper longer and need more processes. Also, most modern papers rely on some sort of MOV.I #XXX, ?YYY as a bomb or an imp. Without those protections, papers become very vulnerable to spl carpets. Incendiary bombing and two instruction traps are still possible, just forced to run a bit slower (just as papers have to run slower). _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From corewar-l@koth.org Tue Dec 18 00:16:20 2001 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBHMGKx19992 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:16:20 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBHMGJO03143 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:16:19 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA00991; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:14:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:14:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1051531151.20011217230211@gmx.net> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: bluescream@gmx.net Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Screamer To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: Proposal B MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53d) Status: RO X-Status: > Eliminate MOV.I so that MOV can only be used to copy a-field and > b-field numbers. > Introduce another opcode: CCO ("Copy COde" or "Carbon Copy Opcode"). > CCO copies the source opcode and addressing modes to the > destination. You could just _change_ the behaviour of MOV.i, in the name of minimal changes. There was something about the idea which I didn't like. I think the new opcode is big part of that. I still don't like the fact that Imps vanish entirely; I'm currently catching up on the list and thinking about a different kind of "combat assembler" like redcode and one of my goals was to make sure Imps are possible. Also, wouldn't anyone come up with a "silk imp" that requires two processes to run but is still an imp? From corewar-l@koth.org Tue Dec 18 06:27:22 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBI4RMx06611 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 06:27:22 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBI4RLT21801 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 06:27:21 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA03444; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:24:18 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:24:18 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <20011217223333.62015.qmail@web11605.mail.yahoo.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: paul_virak_khuong@yahoo.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Paul-V Khuong To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: Proposal B MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: --- Benjamin Ford wrote: > From: David Matthew Moore > >Here's a different idea that would be easier to > implement: > > > >Eliminate MOV.I so that MOV can only be used to > copy a-field > >and b-field numbers. > > Isn't MOV the only instruction that does anything > different with the .i > modifier? So you could just as easily just remove > that. *CMP/SEQ/SNE* IIRC, the .I does something with these. Anyway, yes, it would shake things up a bit, and that'd be good. Agh, we need a better way to modify RC. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com From corewar-l@koth.org Tue Dec 18 06:27:59 2001 Received: from no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (NO-SPAM.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.34]) by kantti.Helsinki.FI (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBI4Rxx00085 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 06:27:59 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (root@odin.ttsg.com [216.231.111.29]) by no-spam.it.helsinki.fi (8.11.4/8.11.4-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id fBI4RwT21811 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 06:27:58 +0200 (EET) Received: from odin.ttsg.com (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ttsg.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA03406; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:22:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:22:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <20011217223548.32608.qmail@web11603.mail.yahoo.com> Errors-To: ttsg@ttsg.com Reply-To: paul_virak_khuong@yahoo.com Originator: corewar-l@koth.org Sender: corewar-l@koth.org Precedence: bulk From: Paul-V Khuong To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L Subject: Re: Proposal B MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Usenet News "rec.games.corewar" Status: RO X-Status: --- Screamer wrote: > > > > Eliminate MOV.I so that MOV can only be used to > copy a-field and > > b-field numbers. > > > Introduce another opcode: CCO ("Copy COde" or > "Carbon Copy Opcode"). > > CCO copies the source opcode and addressing modes > to the > > destination. > > You could just _change_ the behaviour of MOV.i, in > the name of minimal > changes. There was something about the idea which I > didn't like. I > think the new opcode is big part of that. > > I still don't like the fact that Imps vanish > entirely; I'm currently > catching up on the list and thinking about a > different kind of > "combat assembler" like redcode and one of my goals > was to make sure > Imps are possible. > > Also, wouldn't anyone come up with a "silk imp" that > requires two > processes to run but is still an imp? > > Check the '88 archive(?). There's a stone/imp, where the stone itself is aprt of the imp. Last time i checked it, i didn't understand it, but it worked ^_^ So, yes, it would be possible. Would it be abd? Not really, since imps would still be weakened. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com