From: Paul-V Khuong Subject: Re: Proof that a warrior cannot be defeated? Date: 1999/10/01 Message-ID: <19991002002912.18556.rocketmail@web128.yahoomail.com>#1/1 Anders Rosendal wrote: > Hello John! > Tuesday September 28 1999 14:21, John K. Lewis wrote > to lordcow77: > > There was some discussion once about a warrior > that could never *win*. > > How do you die faster than a "dat 0,0"? > If your warrior_that_never_wins meats my "dat 0,0", > you will win if I start. well, if you calculate the score with self fight and multiple rounds, there is one that scores worse: one that is using a handshake, so that it scores less on the handshake?? well, that's what was at the center of the thread, if i recall... it was a two-liner... > -- > V�r opm�rksom p� at jeg ikke er i stand til at > l�se/svare p� breve hvis emne > starter med "Sv:" Nooo!!! the klingons strike back!!! > "The box said 'Windows 95 or better', so I > installed Linux" > Make software, not war. This is such an intelligent reasonment 8) ===== Vive le Qu�bec libre... d� souverainistes!!! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From: "amy" Subject: TRADE PRICED GAMES Date: 1999/10/01 Message-ID: #1/1 www.playtron.co.uk deliver Computer Games to you. Playtron also EXPORT to TRADE suppliers worldwide � trade@playtron.co.uk You can�t beat these prices From: M Joonas Pihlaja Subject: Thanks for publishing code Date: 1999/10/01 Message-ID: #1/1 Thanks to everyone who has published their code recently. It's been a thrill working through the state of the art. Joonas From: rmorgan@jetcity.com (Ross Morgan-Linial) Subject: Re: _Statement_ that a _composite_ warrior cannot be defeated :-) Date: 1999/10/01 Message-ID: <37f43e14.259950189@news.jetcity.com>#1/1 On Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:46:44 +0100, "Robert Macrae" wrote: > > It exists because, if you treat the problem as a zero-sum game > between > > Unfortunately it is nonzerosum.3-win, 1-draw, 0-loss allows for > co-operative play, witness QScans and a recent tournament... Yeah. You can treat it as zero-sum if the only thing that matters is which warrior gets the higher score, though. Didn't I say that? > > two players, where each player's move consists of picking a warrior, > > the game is completely symmetrical. Therefore, there exists a > > weighting of warriors such that it wins at least 50% of the time, > > ignoring ties - this is the best either player can do. You can find > > this weighting using the simplex algorithm or fictitious play. > > You can also apply the simplex algorithm can be applied to the NZS > case. Well, if I understand what you said right, how? Actually, never mind - it's probably more than I'll ever need to know. From: "Robert Macrae" Subject: Re: _Statement_ that a _composite_ warrior cannot be defeated :-) Date: 1999/10/02 Message-ID: <7t55vs$ido$1@lure.pipex.net>#1/1 > Yeah. You can treat it as zero-sum if the only thing that matters is > which warrior gets the higher score, though. Didn't I say that? Erm yes, I suppose you did. > > You can also apply the simplex algorithm can be applied to the NZS > > case. > > Well, if I understand what you said right, how? Actually, never mind - > it's probably more than I'll ever need to know. I remember I ran some tests in ZS form, not sure about NZS -- but I think you can apply the same concept. I will dust off the files and see if I can produce an example. Robert Macrae From: Beppe Bezzi Subject: Re: Proof that a warrior cannot be defeated? Date: 1999/10/02 Message-ID: <02a2111370702a9NEWS@galactica.it>#1/1 At 21.53 01/10/99 -0400, you wrote: >Anders Rosendal wrote: >> Hello John! >> Tuesday September 28 1999 14:21, John K. Lewis wrote >> to lordcow77: >> > There was some discussion once about a warrior >> that could never *win*. >> >> How do you die faster than a "dat 0,0"? >> If your warrior_that_never_wins meats my "dat 0,0", >> you will win if I start. >well, if you calculate the score with self fight and >multiple rounds, there is one that scores worse: >one that is using a handshake, so that it scores less >on the handshake?? >well, that's what was at the center of the thread, if >i recall... >it was a two-liner... >> -- ;redcode-94 ;name looking ;author Beppe ;assert 1 ;strategy give a look ldp #0, #0 jmn.b 0, >-1 end Planar did something a little better, always two lines but a couple less chars. -Beppe From: Richard Rognlie Subject: C++Robots Standings -- 1999.10.04 Date: 1999/10/04 Message-ID: <37F89D1F.87CD0AE1@gamerz.net>#1/1 C++Robots is a King of the Hill (KotH) style programming contest where the contestants submit control programs for simple battling robots. See http://www.gamerz.net/c++robots/ for details. Program Name Score W / L / T Age Author ================ ===== =========== === ===================================== 1 thebully 663 221/ 29/ 0 147 bartlow@scpglobal.com (Brian Bartlow) 2 wilma 639 213/ 37/ 0 253 hamilton@parlous.mlnet.com (Michael H 2 tommy 639 213/ 37/ 0 242 zcewj@cnfd.pgh.wec.com (Elliot W. Jac 4 polarbear 618 206/ 44/ 0 105 flandar@yahoo.com (Aaron Judd) 5 xtraper 611 202/ 43/ 5 254 3r5k1n3@rivnet.net (Michael John Ersk 6 bigtarget8 603 201/ 49/ 0 117 mevail@science.nnc.edu (Mason E Vail) 7 simpletest 573 191/ 59/ 0 165 niklas.wendel@swipnet.se (Niklas Wend 8 crbot 558 186/ 64/ 0 65 rosevear.craig.ca@bhp.com.au (Rosevea 9 crbot2 552 184/ 66/ 0 244 rosevear.craig.ca@bhp.com.au (Rosevea 10 ttr3 537 179/ 71/ 0 222 traber@ngi.de (Thomas Traber) 11 breve 456 152/ 98/ 0 237 steveg@ccis.adisys.com.au (steveg@cci 12 hambot1 453 151/ 99/ 0 9 ahamel@real.com (alain hamel) 13 trex 438 146/104/ 0 518 jerome.dumonteil@capway.com (Jerome D 13 minim 438 146/104/ 0 3 steveg@ccis.adisys.com.au (steveg@cci 15 mariner 435 145/105/ 0 780 zcpjm@cnfd.pgh.wec.com (Paul J. Melko 15 pacarobot 435 145/105/ 0 420 proberts@stnc.com (Paul Roberts) 17 bedtime 432 144/106/ 0 512 btb@micron.net (TheRooster) 18 hiderv13 432 142/102/ 6 261 malcolm@citr.com.au (Malcolm Jones) 19 h21 420 140/110/ 0 371 cgl@infowest.com (Curtis Larsen) 20 z 412 137/112/ 1 266 zcmet@cnfd.pgh.wec.com (Mark E. Tyber 21 quaver 402 134/116/ 0 488 steveg@ccis.adisys.com.au (steveg@cci 22 angus2 397 131/115/ 4 505 andy_grant@adc.com (Andy Grant) 23 radar 396 132/118/ 0 228 radu@rasd.ro (Radu DUMITRU) 24 orbiter 392 130/118/ 2 326 davidma@premier1.net (davidma@premier 25 ssm4 388 129/120/ 1 717 enpch@bath.ac.uk (C Harrison) 26 kiilbot1 375 125/125/ 0 688 bob2@goplay.com (bob2) 27 chaos 372 124/126/ 0 685 agondare@hotmail.com (alex gondarenko 28 crotchet 369 123/127/ 0 2 steveg@ccis.adisys.com.au (steveg@cci 29 ajax 361 120/129/ 1 39 pgodman@uswest.net (pgodman@uswest.ne 30 shooter 360 120/130/ 0 749 itdcjr@mail1.hants.gov.uk (Justin Row 31 moogoobot 354 118/132/ 0 11 smpatel@bsd.prognet.com (Sujal Patel) 32 dragon 340 113/136/ 1 249 proberts@stnc.com (Paul Roberts) 33 knownaim00 339 113/137/ 0 602 c.d.wright@solipsys.compulink.co.uk ( 34 prio.2 330 110/140/ 0 645 oliver@jowett.manawatu.planet.co.nz ( 35 wobble 321 107/143/ 0 7 itcstr@hantsnet.hants.gov.uk (ITCSTR) 36 krom 303 101/149/ 0 385 tdavis@gate.net (Thomas E. Davis) 37 samo_ubistvo 279 93/157/ 0 41 agondare@hotmail.com (alex gondarenko 38 beast 276 92/158/ 0 108 zimman2000@geocities.com (Zim) 39 raystonn 269 86/153/ 11 624 svincent@a.crl.com (Samuel Vincent) 40 firstgreg 259 86/163/ 1 42 gwright@real.com (Greg Wright) 41 achilles 246 82/168/ 0 13 pgodman@uswest.net (pgodman@uswest.ne 42 wasabi 237 79/171/ 0 46 srobinson@real.com (Sean Robinson) 43 imp 228 76/174/ 0 467 petrey@cumbig.bioc.columbia.edu (Dona 44 watson-09 225 75/175/ 0 101 watson@ttisdc.toshiba.co.jp (watson@t 45 freak 192 64/186/ 0 112 zimman2000@geocities.com (Zim) 46 dud 166 55/194/ 1 97 eamonnw@tinet.ie (eamonnw@tinet.ie) 47 gayass 165 55/195/ 0 110 jas0n_hazel@hotmail.com (Jason Hazel) 48 tracker 147 49/201/ 0 4 rrognlie@gamerz.net (Richard Rognlie) 49 litb 135 45/205/ 0 122 ruffener@aol.com (Ruffener@aol.com) 50 stick 132 44/206/ 0 1 cjr@netpliance.net (Chris Richards) -- / \__ | Richard Rognlie / Sendmail Consultant / Sendmail, Inc. \__/ \ | URL: http://www.gamerz.net/rrognlie/ / \__/ | Give a man a fish, and he'll be hungry tomorrow. Teach a \__/ | man to fish, and he'll be at the river all day drinking beer. From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - 94 No Pspace 10/04/99 Date: 1999/10/04 Message-ID: <199910040400.AAA08446@gevjon.ttsg.com>#1/1 Weekly Status on 10/04/99 -=- www.KOTH.org is now hosting a '94 No Pspace Hill. -=- View the stats of all the Hills at: www.KOTH.org/standings.html -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG 94 No Pspace CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Sat Oct 2 07:58:22 EDT 1999 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 34/ 21/ 45 nPaper II Paul-V Khuong 148 40 2 44/ 41/ 15 Jinx Christian Schmidt 148 3 3 44/ 41/ 15 Stalker P.Kline 146 25 4 35/ 25/ 40 Icen Ben Ford 145 134 5 33/ 21/ 46 EvoP 3 Ken Espiritu 144 36 6 34/ 25/ 40 Omnibus John Metcalf 143 49 7 42/ 42/ 16 Zooom... John Metcalf 142 176 8 34/ 27/ 39 Ant Factory Christian Schmidt 142 135 9 31/ 21/ 48 Jade Ben Ford 142 109 10 35/ 30/ 35 Blacken Ian Oversby 141 287 11 31/ 21/ 48 Jaguar Christian Schmidt 140 27 12 41/ 43/ 16 Boys are Back in Town 1.1 Philip Kendall 139 302 13 37/ 36/ 27 PC WFB 139 126 14 41/ 44/ 14 Win! David Moore 138 275 15 25/ 15/ 60 Cinammon John Metcalf 136 5 16 41/ 45/ 14 Qshot Christian Schmidt 136 46 17 27/ 19/ 53 Safety in Numbers Ken Espiritu 136 14 18 33/ 31/ 36 The Pendragon Christian Schmidt 135 113 19 39/ 44/ 17 goonie David Moore 135 102 20 37/ 48/ 14 cTest P.Kline 127 1 21 11/ 72/ 17 impshot8 gior 49 0 From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - Standard 10/04/99 Date: 1999/10/04 Message-ID: <199910040400.AAA08431@gevjon.ttsg.com>#1/1 Weekly Status on 10/04/99 -=- www.KOTH.org is now hosting a '94 No Pspace Hill. -=- View the stats of all the Hills at: www.KOTH.org/standings.html -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG Standard KotH CoreWar Hill : Last battle concluded at : Sat Sep 25 14:11:54 EDT 1999 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 37/ 20/ 42 Freight Train David Moore 155 61 2 36/ 24/ 40 sIMPly.Red v0.95 Leonardo Humberto 148 18 3 34/ 23/ 43 Guardian Ian Oversby 146 60 4 43/ 43/ 14 Blur '88 Anton Marsden 144 98 5 40/ 38/ 23 PacMan David Moore 142 90 6 37/ 32/ 31 Frog Sticker P.Kline 142 10 7 42/ 43/ 15 Foggy Swamp Beppe Bezzi 142 57 8 38/ 36/ 26 Stillborn Bomber v0.2 mjp 141 1 9 40/ 38/ 22 Tangle Trap David Moore 141 134 10 40/ 41/ 19 Stasis David Moore 140 168 11 40/ 40/ 20 Beholder's Eye V1.7 W. Mintardjo 139 336 12 42/ 45/ 13 Iron Gate Wayne Sheppard 138 386 13 42/ 46/ 11 Blurstone '88 M. J. Pihlaja 138 55 14 28/ 17/ 55 EV Paper John K Wilkinson 138 74 15 30/ 24/ 47 Shish-Ka-Bob Ben Ford 135 16 16 27/ 21/ 52 Test I Ian Oversby 133 117 17 36/ 39/ 25 Leapfrog David Moore 132 89 18 36/ 42/ 22 Kitchen Sink Robert Macrae 131 59 19 27/ 23/ 50 Evoltmp 88 John K W 130 111 20 27/ 24/ 49 TESTE Leonardo Humberto 130 19 21 10/ 75/ 16 impz9r Michael Magin 45 0 From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - MultiWarrior 94 10/04/99 Date: 1999/10/04 Message-ID: <199910040400.AAA08435@gevjon.ttsg.com>#1/1 Weekly Status on 10/04/99 -=- www.KOTH.org is now hosting a '94 No Pspace Hill. -=- View the stats of all the Hills at: www.KOTH.org/standings.html -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG Multiwarrior 94 CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Sat Oct 2 22:09:28 EDT 1999 # Name Author Score Age 1 D-clearM Ken Espiritu 50 14 2 Her Majesty P.Kline 34 33 3 Cinderella Ben Ford 30 41 4 Sharkrage Christian Schmidt 28 81 5 BiShot v1.0 Christian Schmidt 28 82 6 HCl Christian Schmidt 28 8 7 FireStarter Simon Duff 27 1 8 QuiVa John Metcalf 26 107 9 Silly Lil' Stone Simon Duff 26 2 10 Vagrant 0.3 Simon Duff 20 6 11 VT Leonardo H. Liporati 0 0 From: "John K. Lewis" Subject: Re: woohoo Date: 1999/10/06 Message-ID: #1/1 Ilmari Karonen wrote: > Consider this a pre-anouncement; If enough people express interest, > I'll post a formal announcement within a week. No money prizes this > time, though. :-( I'm interested. John Lewis From: Ben Ford Subject: Re: woohoo Date: 1999/10/06 Message-ID: <7tg8h7$9u8$1@nnrp1.deja.com>#1/1 I'd be interested. Sounds like the possible warriors are stones, clears, imps, and maybe a tiny paper. -Ben In article <7tft3f$qo7$1@tron.sci.fi>, Ilmari Karonen wrote: > On 6 Oct 1999 04:21:40 -0400, jkw@austin.rr.com wrote: > : Just thought I'd let everyone know I got a money order > : for $100 from J K Lewis for my IWT victory... :) > : Haven't cashed it yet, but it should buy close to 100 > : Burger King double cheeseburgers hehe... > > Now that I've broken my promise[1] by starting a job when I should > have been writing my entry, maybe I could make up this lapse a bit > by organizing IMT #2. ;-) > > For those not familiar with it, Ilmari's Mini-Tournament #1 was > organized in April and May this year, and involved P-switchers > placed in an Iterated Prisoners' Dilemma situation. The results > can be found at http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/corewar/imt1/. > > IMT #2 will hopefully be a bit smaller and simpler than #1 - with > the emphasis being on "smaller". Basically this will be an ordinary > round-robin all against all fight, much like the '94 hill but with > a difference: > > Extrapolating from the baby hill, the maximum length will be 4 > (four) instructions. Correspondingly coresize and maxprocesses > will be 80, and duration 800 cycles. > > Consider this a pre-anouncement; If enough people express interest, > I'll post a formal announcement within a week. No money prizes this > time, though. :-( > > [1] Message-Id: <7j39r3$l64$1@tron.sci.fi> > > -- > Ilmari Karonen > http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/ > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From: Planar Subject: Re: woohoo Date: 1999/10/06 Message-ID: <7tg3ka$ciq$1@ites.inria.fr>#1/1 >Consider this a pre-anouncement; If enough people express interest, >I'll post a formal announcement within a week. I'm interested. -- Planar From: qute@trustme.dk (Anders Rosendal) Subject: Re: Proof that a warrior cannot be defeated? Date: 1999/10/06 Message-ID: #1/1 Hello Paul-V! Friday October 01 1999 21:53, Paul-V Khuong wrote to All: >> > There was some discussion once about a warrior >> that could never *win*. >> How do you die faster than a "dat 0,0"? >> If your warrior_that_never_wins meats my "dat 0,0", >> you will win if I start. > well, if you calculate the score with self fight and > multiple rounds, shaker=warrior that never wins+handshake A dat 0,0 will win half of the self. fights whereas the shaker will lose everytime. I don't see though how it does worse than mine. Example: shaker vs shaker 0 wins shaker vs dat 0,0 100 wins dat 0,0 vs dat 0,0 50 wins shaker beats dat 0,0 because it tries to handshake. > there is one that scores worse: one that is using a handshake, so that > it scores less on the handshake?? > well, that's what was at the center of the thread, if > i recall... it was a two-liner... I don't get it. If you handshake you use more than 1 turn, and that's enough for me to lose. BTW. My revenge is holdning on to the hill. Hurrah :-) >> -- >> V�r opm�rksom p� at jeg ikke er i stand til at >> l�se/svare p� breve hvis emne >> starter med "Sv:" > Nooo!!! the klingons strike back!!! Woops. I'm writing Danish here. Sorry. Just stating that I won't be able to read letters with "sv:" in the topic. Explanation. In Danish Reply is Svar, so the heads at "Microsoft Denmark" replaced "re:" with "sv:". If you think this though the subj will soon become: re: sv: sv: sv: topic. (Outlook replaces the re: with sv: and the normal reader then add re:) >> "The box said 'Windows 95 or better', so I installed Linux" > This is such an intelligent reasonment 8) Thnak you. Unix is the most importent thing I learned at the university, come to think about it - it's the only thing! ;-)) -- "The box said 'Windows 95 or better', so I installed Linux" Make software, not war. From: Ilmari Karonen Subject: Re: woohoo Date: 1999/10/06 Message-ID: <7tft3f$qo7$1@tron.sci.fi>#1/1 On 6 Oct 1999 04:21:40 -0400, jkw@austin.rr.com wrote: : Just thought I'd let everyone know I got a money order : for $100 from J K Lewis for my IWT victory... :) : Haven't cashed it yet, but it should buy close to 100 : Burger King double cheeseburgers hehe... Now that I've broken my promise[1] by starting a job when I should have been writing my entry, maybe I could make up this lapse a bit by organizing IMT #2. ;-) For those not familiar with it, Ilmari's Mini-Tournament #1 was organized in April and May this year, and involved P-switchers placed in an Iterated Prisoners' Dilemma situation. The results can be found at http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/corewar/imt1/. IMT #2 will hopefully be a bit smaller and simpler than #1 - with the emphasis being on "smaller". Basically this will be an ordinary round-robin all against all fight, much like the '94 hill but with a difference: Extrapolating from the baby hill, the maximum length will be 4 (four) instructions. Correspondingly coresize and maxprocesses will be 80, and duration 800 cycles. Consider this a pre-anouncement; If enough people express interest, I'll post a formal announcement within a week. No money prizes this time, though. :-( [1] Message-Id: <7j39r3$l64$1@tron.sci.fi> -- Ilmari Karonen http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/ From: Paul Kline Subject: re: woohoo Date: 1999/10/06 Message-ID: <7tfllv$fjn@ng1.icn.state.ia.us>#1/1 JKW wrote: > >Just thought I'd let everyone know I got a money order >for $100 from J K Lewis for my IWT victory... :) >Haven't cashed it yet, but it should buy close to 100 >Burger King double cheeseburgers hehe... > All the previous tournament cash winners put their checks into frames to hang on the wall ;-) Paul Kline pk6811s@acad.drake.edu From: jkw@austin.rr.com Subject: woohoo Date: 1999/10/06 Message-ID: <4.1.19991005220135.00963320@pop-server>#1/1 Just thought I'd let everyone know I got a money order for $100 from J K Lewis for my IWT victory... :) Haven't cashed it yet, but it should buy close to 100 Burger King double cheeseburgers hehe... -jkw From: Paul-V Khuong Subject: Re: woohoo Date: 1999/10/07 Message-ID: <19991007213429.8698.rocketmail@web116.yahoomail.com>#1/1 Planar wrote: > >Consider this a pre-anouncement; If enough people > express interest, > >I'll post a formal announcement within a week. > > I'm interested. Me too... How much time do we have before giving our "mini-warriors"?? So, it would be: Lenght: 4 lines max Coresize: 80 right?? anything else?? ===== Vive le Qu�bec libre... d� souverainistes!!! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From: Paul-V Khuong Subject: Re: woohoo Date: 1999/10/07 Message-ID: <19991007214245.9906.rocketmail@web116.yahoomail.com>#1/1 Ben Ford wrote: > I'd be interested. Sounds like the possible > warriors are stones, > clears, imps, and maybe a tiny paper. tiny paper??? sorry, but it's impossible... Oh, well, i don't know what i'll submit... i'll probably have some evolver do the job 8) it's a great intro to that, i think... it'll be mine, anyway ===== Vive le Qu�bec libre... d� souverainistes!!! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From: M Joonas Pihlaja Subject: Re: woohoo Date: 1999/10/07 Message-ID: #1/1 On Wed, 6 Oct 1999, Ilmari Karonen wrote: > Consider this a pre-anouncement; If enough people express interest, > I'll post a formal announcement within a week. No money prizes this > time, though. :-( I'm interested. Joonas From: "Enrique Rodal" Subject: TIBERIAN SUN SOLUTIONS Date: 1999/10/07 Message-ID: <7tirt7$m027@eui1nw.euskaltel.es>#1/1 All solutions for this game in our page -- LECCIONES DE ESTRATEGIA http://members.es.tripod.de/leccionesestrategia/index.html From: qute@trustme.dk (Anders Rosendal) Subject: Re: woohoo Date: 1999/10/07 Message-ID: #1/1 Hello Ilmari! Wednesday October 06 1999 16:24, Ilmari Karonen wrote to jkw@austin.rr.com: > Extrapolating from the baby hill, the maximum length will be 4 > (four) instructions. Correspondingly coresize and maxprocesses > will be 80, and duration 800 cycles. > Consider this a pre-anouncement; If enough people express interest, > I'll post a formal announcement within a week. I'm on. It can't take more than a minut or so to write 4 instructions :-) > No money prizes this time, though. :-( I'm not going to win anyway. Take _that_ all you wizards :-) -- V�r opm�rksom p� at jeg ikke er i stand til at l�se/svare p� breve hvis emne starter med "Sv:" "The box said 'Windows 95 or better', so I installed Linux" Make software, not war. From: "Josh Yeager" Subject: Re: woohoo Date: 1999/10/07 Message-ID: <01bf0ff9$d3a459a0$825a2581@compuwhiz-s-pc>#1/1 Sounds cool! Josh From: Ilmari Karonen Subject: Re: woohoo Date: 1999/10/07 Message-ID: <7ti4er$gam$1@tron.sci.fi>#1/1 On Wed, 06 Oct 1999 19:39:22 GMT, Ben Ford (fordbc@hotmail.com) wrote: : I'd be interested. Sounds like the possible warriors are stones, : clears, imps, and maybe a tiny paper. Don't forget 4-line oneshots to wipe out those tiny papers. -- Ilmari Karonen http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/ From: olcfvk@yahoo.com Subject: Lowest prices on all computer games new & used. 640 Date: 1999/10/08 Message-ID: #1/1 Best Selection Of Computer Games Around http://www.ixtreme.com/gamersworld/ mlhkgmfrqborjtydmhzjynqvozqsuxdtlxrowmosfhb From: Ilmari Karonen Subject: Re: woohoo Date: 1999/10/08 Message-ID: <7tkpuo$6hn$1@tron.sci.fi>#1/1 On 7 Oct 1999 17:50:35 -0400, Paul-V Khuong (paul_virak_khuong@yahoo.com) wrote: : tiny paper??? : sorry, but it's impossible... Oh no it isn't. You just need to change the usual formula a bit. It might not be particularly aggressive, but it can work. I can think of two ways of making an 88-style paper in 4 lines, and one way to make a true, if slightly unusual, silk. (hint: let the paper carry the SPL 1) There are several more ways to make non-replicating papers, and at least one of these can be made self-splitting. It might actually make sense to try one of these, since several people have already said they intend to submit some variant of d-clear, which could easily be beaten by even a simple paper. -- Ilmari Karonen http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/ From: "Ransom Smith" Subject: Re: woohoo (repost) Date: 1999/10/08 Message-ID: #1/1 Hmmm.... Thought I "expressed interest", but I don't see it here. Perhaps I accidentally mailed you personally, I. K. Here it is: __ | | == YES! Sign me up for a full one-tournament subscription to "Ilmari's Mini-Tournament, Number 2! I will recieve no bills untilOctember, 2000! I understand that I can have a full refund If at any time during the next thirty days, I am not completely satisfied! From: Christian Schmidt Subject: Re: woohoo Date: 1999/10/08 Message-ID: #1/1 I'm interested, too. Christian From: David Matthew Moore Subject: Re: woohoo Date: 1999/10/08 Message-ID: <7tkad5$3og$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu>#1/1 Ilmari Karonen wrote: : : Consider this a pre-anouncement; If enough people express interest, : I'll post a formal announcement within a week. : Well, I just wrote one little four-liner, so my participation is guaranteed. : : No money prizes this time, though. :-( : How about a .sig-sized ascii trophy? -- David Moore, penniless starving redcoder From: sieben@imap1.asu.edu Subject: unbeatable warrior Date: 1999/10/09 Message-ID: <7tojl2$7km$1@news.asu.edu>#1/1 Can anyone give a proof that there is no unbeatable warrior. To make it precise, I'd say that warrior A does not beat warrior B if warrior B wins at least as many times as warrior A does if we let them play against each other in every possible placement. Nandor. From: REMOVETOSPAMMEcodeguy@hotmail.com (Travis Bemann) Subject: Corewar beginner Date: 1999/10/09 Message-ID: <37ff3477$0$11278@news.execpc.com>#1/1 I'm a beginner at Corewar. I've created some warriors, but I'm not sure about how to do things such as scattering bombing paths without hitting my own warrior. Also, I'm not sure about what some of the terminology, such as vampire (or vamp for short), means. Could you give me some Corewar tips, such as tips on how to improve the best warrior that I've created yet, which is: ;redcode-94 ;name Mauvestone ;author Travis Bemann ;strategy spl 0 scan-bomber, 2-pass coreclear, imp-gate ;assert 1 org boot step0 equ #4 step1 equ #6 step2 equ #2 boot mov impgate,last+20 scan0 add step0,aim scan1 jmz.f scan0,@aim slt aim,#CORESIZE-50 jmp clear0 mov ammo0,>aim mov ammo1,>aim add step1,aim jmp scan1 clear0 mov aimold,aim clear1 add step2,aim slt aim,#CORESIZE-50 jmp clear2 mov ammo2,@aim jmp clear1 clear2 mov aimold,aim add #1,aim clear3 add step2,aim slt aim,#CORESIZE-50 jmp last+20 mov ammo2,@aim jmp clear3 impgate jmp.b 0,<-10 ammo0 spl 0 ammo1 jmp -1 ammo2 dat #0,#0 aim dat #0,#last+21 aimold dat #0,#last+21 last dat #0,#0 end -- Travis Bemann From: "Ransom Smith" Subject: Re: woohoo Date: 1999/10/09 Message-ID: #1/1 > It might actually make sense to try one of these, since several > people have already said they intend to submit some variant of > d-clear, which could easily be beaten by even a simple paper. Sshhh! SSSHHH! AAAUGHHH! From: "Screamer" Subject: Re: the truth about David Matthew Moore Date: 1999/10/10 Message-ID: <001601bf136d$63bf2ee0$6000a8c0@screamer>#1/1 > or should we find this guy and stare nastily at him for hours? LOL, a bunch of computer geeks from all over the world staring nastily at him... I vote for that, he'll freak out of fear! ;-D Screamer From: sheldon@visi.com (Steve Sheldon) Subject: Re: the truth about David Matthew Moore Date: 1999/10/10 Message-ID: #1/1 sheldon@visi.com (Steve Sheldon) writes: > I'm forwarding a copy of this to the postmaster at fc.net, as well as the >postmaster at snet.net, which is where your real email address comes from. >It's bad enough spamming usenet, it's worse when it's slanderous. Interesting. The individuals mentioned as the authors of the web site sent me email back claiming that the original message was a forgery. Which is quite possible, as I've been the victim of such forgeries myself. Ohwell, this newsgroup was boring lately. We should thank the troll for bringing us something interesting to talk about. -- Steve Sheldon email: sheldon@yuck.net BSCS/MCSE url: http://www.sheldon.visi.com From: reece mcconkey Subject: Re: the truth about David Matthew Moore Date: 1999/10/10 Message-ID: <7tqoa4$jhl$0@208.10.2.138>#1/1 hmmm, do I smell a lawsuit? or should we find this guy and stare nastily at him for hours? David Matthew Moore wrote: > Okay, a little research shows that this guy posted to almost every Usenet > group that has a "Dave Moore" > > Note that the middle name of the subject is omitted from the web site > (i.e. there is no occurence of "Matthew"). That's because the same web site > is used for each occurence of "Dave Moore" on the Usenet. > > That is the curse of having a common name. I was one of 3 DM's in my high > school. I got a lot of mysterious "overdue book" notices from the school > library... > > -- > David --> Matthew <-- Moore. From: sheldon@visi.com (Steve Sheldon) Subject: Re: the truth about David Matthew Moore Date: 1999/10/10 Message-ID: #1/1 doosh@best.com (Tom Holub) writes: >In article , >Steve Sheldon wrote: >) >) So it appears you are guilty of slander. >) >) I find it interesting when people become far worse than those they are >)accusing. >Slander is far worse than rape and child abuse? But the page doesn't give any support for that. It's solely about some flame war over in the alt.* groups. -- Steve Sheldon email: sheldon@yuck.net BSCS/MCSE url: http://www.sheldon.visi.com From: doosh@best.com (Tom Holub) Subject: Re: the truth about David Matthew Moore Date: 1999/10/10 Message-ID: <3800b9c2$0$229@nntp1.ba.best.com>#1/1 In article , Steve Sheldon wrote: ) ) So it appears you are guilty of slander. ) ) I find it interesting when people become far worse than those they are )accusing. Slander is far worse than rape and child abuse? -Tom From: sheldon@visi.com (Steve Sheldon) Subject: Re: the truth about David Matthew Moore Date: 1999/10/10 Message-ID: #1/1 David Matthew Moore writes: >Okay, a little research shows that this guy posted to almost every Usenet >group that has a "Dave Moore" Yup. >Note that the middle name of the subject is omitted from the web site >(i.e. there is no occurence of "Matthew"). That's because the same web site >is used for each occurence of "Dave Moore" on the Usenet. Interesting to note the little thing at the bottom... The Dave Moores listed below are not the person I'm talking about... Sorry for accusing them of nasty things. >That is the curse of having a common name. I was one of 3 DM's in my high >school. I got a lot of mysterious "overdue book" notices from the school >library... There's a guy in the nearby town named Steve Shelton. We get each others phone calls. :) -- Steve Sheldon email: sheldon@yuck.net BSCS/MCSE url: http://www.sheldon.visi.com From: sheldon@visi.com (Steve Sheldon) Subject: Re: the truth about David Matthew Moore Date: 1999/10/10 Message-ID: #1/1 squirrel@echelon.alias.net (wrain) writes: >See http://www.fc.net/~wrain for the truth about this child molester >and convicted rapist. Fascinating. I did a little bit of research of my own, and I can find no evidence which supports your theory that mooredav@cse.msu.edu is the same David Moore as from the internet kooks newsgroups you frequent. Rather I found plenty of evidence that they are not. So it appears you are guilty of slander. I find it interesting when people become far worse than those they are accusing. I don't understand what motive drives people like that. I'm forwarding a copy of this to the postmaster at fc.net, as well as the postmaster at snet.net, which is where your real email address comes from. It's bad enough spamming usenet, it's worse when it's slanderous. -- Steve Sheldon email: sheldon@yuck.net BSCS/MCSE url: http://www.sheldon.visi.com From: "Robert Macrae" Subject: Re: the truth about David Matthew Moore Date: 1999/10/10 Message-ID: <7tq8d7$fi0$2@lure.pipex.net>#1/1 > See http://www.fc.net/~wrain for the truth about this child molester > and convicted rapist. Not worth it. The only entertainment value is seeing "David Moore" attacked for careless crossposting 8-) Robert Macrae From: "Robert Macrae" Subject: Re: Corewar beginner Date: 1999/10/10 Message-ID: <7tq8d6$fi0$1@lure.pipex.net>#1/1 > Could you give me some Corewar > tips, Best one is to read Corewarrior, starting with issue #1! koth.org has pointers to this and lots of other resources. > ;redcode-94 > ;name Mauvestone > ;author Travis Bemann > ;strategy spl 0 scan-bomber, 2-pass coreclear, imp-gate > ;assert 1 > > org boot > step0 equ #4 > step1 equ #6 > step2 equ #2 > boot mov impgate,last+20 > scan0 add step0,aim > scan1 jmz.f scan0,@aim > slt aim,#CORESIZE-50 > jmp clear0 This kind of warrior is a "Oneshot", which scans once and then starts a clear on top of what it finds. It has a 0.5c scan, which is fine, but it looks forward in steps of only +4, and will be very slow to find long warriors. I would recommend trying larger steps (maybe up to 20 or so). For most kinds of scanners you can also try much larger numbers like 2670 (2670 = 2667+3, 3 x (2667+3) = 8001 + 9 = CORESIZE+10 -- if this doesn't make sense, read up about imps!) has the effect of scanning in 3 trails, each trail spaced 10 apart. Try some alternatives. > mov ammo0,>aim > mov ammo1,>aim > add step1,aim > jmp scan1 Is this ever executed? > clear0 mov aimold,aim > clear1 add step2,aim > slt aim,#CORESIZE-50 > jmp clear2 > mov ammo2,@aim > jmp clear1 This loop seems to take 4 cycles to place 1 bomb, for 0.25c. I think that something like a DClear would be more effective. > clear2 mov aimold,aim > add #1,aim > clear3 add step2,aim > slt aim,#CORESIZE-50 > jmp last+20 This JMP looks like suicide? last+20 is outside your warrior... > mov ammo2,@aim > jmp clear3 Again, the clear is rather slow. DClear uses much the same idea, but takes up far less space (so is harder to bomb) and clears faster. > impgate jmp.b 0,<-10 > ammo0 spl 0 > ammo1 jmp -1 > ammo2 dat #0,#0 > aim dat #0,#last+21 > aimold dat #0,#last+21 > last dat #0,#0 > end There does not seem to be much wrong with the code, but it is long which will makes it easy to kill. One trick you should study is using the increment and decrement addressing modes -- >,<,} and {. These are a key part of clears because tehy cut out an ADD instruction and save a cycle. Some long warriors (like He Scans Alone) do well by having very fast, very deadly attacks but the main loop of most warriors is only 3-5 words long. Take a look at some oneshots -- there are lots of them; mine is called Phantasm -- and see if you can use some of their tricks to shorten your code. Regards, Robert Macrae From: David Matthew Moore Subject: Re: the truth about David Matthew Moore Date: 1999/10/10 Message-ID: <7tpod6$fe2$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu>#1/1 Okay, a little research shows that this guy posted to almost every Usenet group that has a "Dave Moore" Note that the middle name of the subject is omitted from the web site (i.e. there is no occurence of "Matthew"). That's because the same web site is used for each occurence of "Dave Moore" on the Usenet. That is the curse of having a common name. I was one of 3 DM's in my high school. I got a lot of mysterious "overdue book" notices from the school library... -- David --> Matthew <-- Moore. From: David Matthew Moore Subject: Re: the truth about David Matthew Moore Date: 1999/10/10 Message-ID: <7tpg8d$ns2$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu>#1/1 In rec.games.corewar wrain wrote: : : See [URL deleted] for the truth about this child molester : and convicted rapist. Note: I have never been to court. The web site is, of course, 100% fiction. I don't know who is responsible for this libel. -- David Matthew Moore From: REMOVETOSPAMMEcodeguy@hotmail.com (Travis Bemann) Subject: Re: Corewar beginner Date: 1999/10/11 Message-ID: <3802abfe$0$11278@news.execpc.com>#1/1 In article <7tttvt$5kg$1@lure.pipex.net>, "Robert Macrae" wrote: > > How do I keep myself from scanning on top of myself? With the > design of > > this warrior, it knows when to start the coreclear when it tries to > scan > > itself. The SLT aim,#CORESIZE-50 detects this condition and the > warrior > > jumps to the start of the coreclear code. > > You take about 4000 cycles to get round core... if you make it, your > opponent must be asleep! I usually make my oneshots scan something > non-damaging (a DJN trail or a bit of decoy) so that if by chance they > do make it that far, they just start clearing. Even when I make the scanning faster, I still need some way of detecting the condition of having scanned around the entire memory space. I don't want to start bombing my own code with SPL 0 JMP -1. I also want to be able to detect this so I can go on to killing the disabled opposing warriors with a coreclear. I might replace thise SPL 0 JMP -1 with a simple DJN loop coreclear. This would not be as effective, but it would be far faster. It would also be possible to detect the end of the cycle extremely quickly. What I am thinking about is: start ; the first instruction in the code loop DJN loop,last ; put everything else until the end here last DAT #0,#start ; the start of the code As to what I remember, DJN decrements the referenced Bfield value (in this case last) and decrements the target of the referenced location. After that, if the referenced location's contents is not 0, it jumps to the referenced Afield location (in this case, itself). This would easily and quickly test for the end of this loop. The location of the counter at the end of the code would ensure that the warrior's own code would not get damaged. > > > that something like a DClear would be more effective. > > > > Do you mean a DJN coreclear? > > Something like: > > gate DAT 0, db+3 > for 5 > DAT 0,0 > rof > SPL 0, 0 > MOV db, >gate > end DJN.f -1, >gate > db dat 1, end+3 > > It is a little gem, simple and deadly, courtesy Bjoern Guenzel. > > > I found that I needed something which would > > terminate other warriors once and for all. > > Just the ticket! > > > That JMP is to activate an imp-gate copied beyond the end of the > code. If > > you look at the start of the code, there is a MOV impgate,last+20. > > Sorry, missed it. Usually it pays to build your gate into the clear, > so that you stay protected against imps while you keep trying to clear > them. Of course this kind of compromise means that the gate may be > less effective... > > > Where could I get information on faster techniques. > > Look at some of the code on Planar's website. Some of the pspacers are > handy; ignore the p-engine, and just look at the components because > these tend to be fairly compact and simple. What's the URL? > > I do realize that there is the >, <, }, and { addressing modes. > However I > > know that they can only increment or decrement. They can't do mod4 > and > > mod8 scanning. > > Right, but they are handy for the clear. -- Travis Bemann From: REMOVETOSPAMMEcodeguy@hotmail.com (Travis Bemann) Subject: Re: Corewar beginner Date: 1999/10/11 Message-ID: <380257e7$0$11270@news.execpc.com>#1/1 In article , "Ransom Smith" wrote: > > How do I keep myself from scanning on top of myself? With the design of > > this warrior, it knows when to start the coreclear when it tries to scan > > itself. The SLT aim,#CORESIZE-50 detects this condition and the warrior > > jumps to the start of the coreclear code. > > Try looking at Rave.red, that came with the pMARS. Just the first 4 or 5 > lines should work. If you can't really tell what they do, load that file > into the core with 'pmarsv rave.red -e', and look at it in the core debugger > (cdb) > > > > That JMP is to activate an imp-gate copied beyond the end of the code. If > > you look at the start of the code, there is a MOV impgate,last+20. > > > > > > mov ammo2,@aim > > > > jmp clear3 > > > > > I wouldn't even have an impgate past the code. If you look at how they are > constructed, you'll find that imps cant move backwards. If they did, that > would defeat the purpose of an imp. Also, you could save some space by using > the < mentioned earlier. It kills imps nicely. Just < the field where you > want the imp to be. Also, I find that anchoring a backwards DJN in front of > your warrior makes for a good imp-protector. > > > Where could I get information on faster techniques. > > > > > > impgate jmp.b 0,<-10 > > > > ammo0 spl 0 > > > > ammo1 jmp -1 > > > > ammo2 dat #0,#0 > > > > aim dat #0,#last+21 > > > > aimold dat #0,#last+21 > > > > last dat #0,#0 > > > > end > > > > > > I do realize that there is the >, <, }, and { addressing modes. However I > > know that they can only increment or decrement. They can't do mod4 and > > mod8 scanning. > > No, but they can do mod 1 clears. This is quite helpful. > > Let me know if you need anything more. Oh, and terminologywise, read the > FAQ, it's really helpful. I think it's at > http://www.paradise.net.nz/~anton/corewar-faq.html and it comes up every two > weeks in here. (RGC) Actually, his homepage has moved to http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~anton/. Unfortunately, he hasn't copied anything into the directory yet. Thanks! -- Travis Bemann From: "Wayne Sheppard" Subject: Re: unbeatable warrior Date: 1999/10/11 Message-ID: #1/1 wrote in message news:7tojl2$7km$1@news.asu.edu... > Can anyone give a proof that there is no unbeatable warrior. To make it > precise, I'd say that warrior A does not beat warrior B if warrior B wins > at least as many times as warrior A does if we let them play against each > other in every possible placement. > > Nandor. According to your definition, no warrior could beat itself. Therefore unless you forbid self-fights, there is no unbeatable warrior. Can you clone and modify the "unbeatable warrior" slightly so that the results would still be a tie? You could make cosmetic changes to warrior A. Change an unused B-field or add an extra dat 0,0 at the end. But maybe the unbeatable warrior was already max length and every field was important. You could also attack the unbeatable warrior with the instruction modifiers. .I and .F have the same functionality for all instructions except MOV and CMP (SEQ and SNE). Therefore the perfect warrior could not have any ADD.F type instructions. Also for JMP and SPL, the instruction modifier is ignored. The perfect warrior could not have either instruction. This leaves you with single process, non-stunning warriors with restrictions on instruction modifiers. Can the problem be whittled down further? Wayne From: Ilmari Karonen Subject: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Ilmari's Mini-Tournament #2 Date: 1999/10/11 Message-ID: <7ttj55$jvk$1@tron.sci.fi>#1/1 Ilmari's Mini-Tournament #2 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Six months after IMT #1 started, it's about time for another Mini-Tournament. This time the theme will be minimalism: to write a warrior in only 4 (four!) instructions. The tournament will consist of a single KotH-style round robin fight - the specs are derived by extrapolation from the pizza '94 and '94x hills, and are given below: coresize: 80 max. processes: 80 duration: after 800 cycles, a tie will be declared max. entry length: 4 minimum distance: 4 rounds fought: 146* instruction set: ICWS '94 Draft * Since it would be pointless to fight 200 rounds in an 80-instruction core, I will modify pMARS to run every possible placement and starting order in a random sequence. The pMARS command line for the above specs is: pmars -s 80 -p 80 -c 800 -l 4 -d 4 To enter the tournament, e-mail your warrior to . You should then shortly receive an automatic reply telling you whether your submission was succesful or not. To help the autoresponder work correctly, please follow the guidelines below: - Provide a valid (not spamblocked) reply address in your e-mail. - Include proper ;redcode, ;name and ;author lines in your program. - Paste your program into the message, do not send it as an attachment. - Send your submission to the autoresponder, not to me. I will save all submissions, and will try to make sure no warriors get left out even if the automatic submission system fails, but following the rules should make things easier for both you and me. The deadline for submission will be at the end of this month, more precisely Sunday, 31 October 1999, 23:59:59 GMT. While I may accept late submissions for a good reason, I expect to run the battles the day after the deadline, after which no changes to the results can be made. Your may change your submission as many times as you like before the deadline, though. The above information will be also made available on the IMT #2 web pages at http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/corewar/imt2/ - if the pages are not there yet by the time you read this, they should be available tomorrow. Any additions or changes to the rules will be announced both here and on the web pages. Everyone is welcome to enter the tournament. All it takes is the time and effort to write four lines of redcode, and the more people enter the more fun it will be. Remember that there are surprisingly many different possible four line warriors - if you don't feel like tweaking your core clear to score one point better than your opponent's core clear, try to come up with something different and unexpected instead. I'll grant an honorary mention to anyone who submits a working 4-line bomb dodger. :-) -- Ilmari Karonen http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/ From: ntcommon@heron.eecs.umich.edu (Daniel Damouth) Subject: Re: the truth about David Matthew Moore Date: 1999/10/11 Message-ID: <7ttal5$1sc$1@news.eecs.umich.edu>#1/1 In article <7ts5t2$ds7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 [...] >> Oh. "Guilty until proven innocent". > >Actually my intent is simply to keep innocent >people from being harassed by an unscrupulous >troll who shares their name. I'm sorry if I >didn't make it clear in my original message. >I'll attempt to do so now. [Fairly clear explanation deleted] Next time you might try explaining this first. Also, I recommend you put this explanation on your web page, which probably gets more hits from confused and/or angry friends of Dave Moores than anyone else. Remember, most poeple have only a vague understanding of how Usenet and email work, and have limited experience with forgeries like this. What's on your web site now, while interesting, is less than clear on what's going on. -Dan Damouth -- Joss Whedon, on the Buffy board: "The posting board is... uh, the people are.. typing, and there is, they communicate from the typing... my head is swollen." From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - 94 No Pspace 10/11/99 Date: 1999/10/11 Message-ID: <199910110400.AAA08281@gevjon.ttsg.com>#1/1 Weekly Status on 10/11/99 -=- www.KOTH.org is now hosting a '94 No Pspace Hill. -=- View the stats of all the Hills at: www.KOTH.org/standings.html -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG 94 No Pspace CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Fri Oct 8 06:41:21 EDT 1999 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 42/ 42/ 16 Jinx Christian Schmidt 143 3 2 42/ 42/ 16 Stalker P.Kline 141 25 3 30/ 21/ 50 nPaper II Paul-V Khuong 139 40 4 41/ 43/ 16 Zooom... John Metcalf 139 176 5 41/ 44/ 15 Win! David Moore 137 275 6 31/ 25/ 45 Icen Ben Ford 137 134 7 31/ 26/ 44 Omnibus John Metcalf 136 49 8 29/ 21/ 50 EvoP 3 Ken Espiritu 136 36 9 40/ 44/ 17 Boys are Back in Town 1.1 Philip Kendall 136 302 10 28/ 21/ 51 Jade Ben Ford 135 109 11 32/ 30/ 37 Blacken Ian Oversby 134 287 12 39/ 44/ 17 goonie David Moore 133 102 13 30/ 27/ 43 Ant Factory Christian Schmidt 133 135 14 27/ 21/ 52 Jaguar Christian Schmidt 133 27 15 34/ 36/ 29 PC WFB 132 126 16 39/ 46/ 15 Qshot Christian Schmidt 131 46 17 22/ 14/ 64 Cinammon John Metcalf 129 5 18 23/ 19/ 57 Safety in Numbers Ken Espiritu 128 14 19 29/ 31/ 40 The Pendragon Christian Schmidt 127 113 20 36/ 49/ 15 cTest P.Kline 122 1 21 16/ 15/ 69 look mjp 118 0 From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - Standard 10/11/99 Date: 1999/10/11 Message-ID: <199910110400.AAA08267@gevjon.ttsg.com>#1/1 Weekly Status on 10/11/99 -=- www.KOTH.org is now hosting a '94 No Pspace Hill. -=- View the stats of all the Hills at: www.KOTH.org/standings.html -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG Standard KotH CoreWar Hill : Last battle concluded at : Sat Sep 25 14:11:54 EDT 1999 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 37/ 20/ 42 Freight Train David Moore 155 61 2 36/ 24/ 40 sIMPly.Red v0.95 Leonardo Humberto 148 18 3 34/ 23/ 43 Guardian Ian Oversby 146 60 4 43/ 43/ 14 Blur '88 Anton Marsden 144 98 5 40/ 38/ 23 PacMan David Moore 142 90 6 37/ 32/ 31 Frog Sticker P.Kline 142 10 7 42/ 43/ 15 Foggy Swamp Beppe Bezzi 142 57 8 38/ 36/ 26 Stillborn Bomber v0.2 mjp 141 1 9 40/ 38/ 22 Tangle Trap David Moore 141 134 10 40/ 41/ 19 Stasis David Moore 140 168 11 40/ 40/ 20 Beholder's Eye V1.7 W. Mintardjo 139 336 12 42/ 45/ 13 Iron Gate Wayne Sheppard 138 386 13 42/ 46/ 11 Blurstone '88 M. J. Pihlaja 138 55 14 28/ 17/ 55 EV Paper John K Wilkinson 138 74 15 30/ 24/ 47 Shish-Ka-Bob Ben Ford 135 16 16 27/ 21/ 52 Test I Ian Oversby 133 117 17 36/ 39/ 25 Leapfrog David Moore 132 89 18 36/ 42/ 22 Kitchen Sink Robert Macrae 131 59 19 27/ 23/ 50 Evoltmp 88 John K W 130 111 20 27/ 24/ 49 TESTE Leonardo Humberto 130 19 21 10/ 75/ 16 impz9r Michael Magin 45 0 From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - ICWS Experimental 94 10/11/99 Date: 1999/10/11 Message-ID: <199910110400.AAA08275@gevjon.ttsg.com>#1/1 Weekly Status on 10/11/99 -=- www.KOTH.org is now hosting a '94 No Pspace Hill. -=- View the stats of all the Hills at: www.KOTH.org/standings.html -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG ICWS Experimental 94 CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Sat Sep 25 14:03:57 EDT 1999 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 53/ 32/ 16 Black Moods Ian Oversby 174 7 2 47/ 29/ 24 Controlled Aggression Ian Oversby 165 11 3 38/ 16/ 47 Venom v0.2b Christian Schmidt 160 33 4 30/ 6/ 64 Evol Cap 4 X John Wilkinson 154 80 5 26/ 3/ 72 Evolve X v4.0 John Wilkinson 149 28 6 32/ 20/ 48 Rosebud Beppe 144 59 7 36/ 32/ 32 Draken Fire X Ben Ford 139 2 8 38/ 37/ 25 Dr. Gate X Franz 138 51 9 37/ 39/ 24 Stepping Stone 94x Kurt Franke 136 66 10 35/ 36/ 28 BigBoy Robert Macrae 134 105 11 38/ 42/ 20 Tsunami v0.3 X Ian Oversby 133 5 12 30/ 30/ 40 Self-Modifying Code X Ben Ford 129 1 13 39/ 49/ 12 S.E.T.I. 4-X JKW 129 81 14 36/ 44/ 19 Pagan John K W 128 65 15 31/ 35/ 33 Lithium X 8 John K Wilkinson 128 71 16 22/ 16/ 62 Sphere v0.2 Christian Schmidt 127 22 17 36/ 46/ 18 Memories Beppe Bezzi 126 87 18 22/ 19/ 58 Purple v0.1 Christian Schmidt 125 32 19 36/ 49/ 15 WingShot Ben Ford 124 3 20 36/ 49/ 15 BiShot Christian Schmidt 123 19 21 7/ 63/ 31 impz4r Michael Magin 50 0 From: Paul-V Khuong Subject: Re: the truth about David Matthew Moore Date: 1999/10/11 Message-ID: <19991011132639.19660.rocketmail@web123.yahoomail.com>#1/1 Steve Sheldon wrote: > squirrel@echelon.alias.net (wrain) writes: > > >See http://www.fc.net/~wrain for the truth about > this child molester > >and convicted rapist. > > > Fascinating. I did a little bit of research of my > own, and I can find no > evidence which supports your theory that > mooredav@cse.msu.edu is the same > David Moore as from the internet kooks newsgroups > you frequent. Rather I > found plenty of evidence that they are not. rather, yes: have you looked at the downmost frame?? if you scroll a bit, you can read: " *The Dave Moore that is the subject of these web pages does NOT have these accounts. They belong to totally separate individuals who have no connection to him beyond sharing the same name. morgoth@valinor.freeserve.co.uk and mangobanana@my-dejanews.com lizard@telepak.net ... mooredav@cse.msu.edu ... " There are some facts that i find pretty strage too... email address: squirrel@echelon.alias.net (wrain) ^^^^^^^^ His name is wrain for his isp, and this probably is his most common id on the net, right? http://www.fc.net/~wrain/ user name? ^^^^^^ wrain... Do you know many guys(or gals) that call themselves wrain on the net? me neither. ............. ===== Vive le Qu�bec libre... d� souverainistes!!! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - MultiWarrior 94 10/11/99 Date: 1999/10/11 Message-ID: <199910110400.AAA08271@gevjon.ttsg.com>#1/1 Weekly Status on 10/11/99 -=- www.KOTH.org is now hosting a '94 No Pspace Hill. -=- View the stats of all the Hills at: www.KOTH.org/standings.html -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG Multiwarrior 94 CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Fri Oct 8 10:17:15 EDT 1999 # Name Author Score Age 1 D-clearM Ken Espiritu 55 15 2 FireStarter Simon Duff 47 2 3 BiShot v1.0 Christian Schmidt 43 83 4 Silly Lil' Stone Simon Duff 31 3 5 Vagrant 0.3 Simon Duff 29 7 6 QuiVa John Metcalf 29 108 7 Her Majesty P.Kline 29 34 8 Cinderella Ben Ford 25 42 9 Sharkrage Christian Schmidt 24 82 10 Gonzales Simon Duff 23 1 11 Barriuso : the caniero ki Danielb 1 0 From: Yan Liu Subject: Re: the truth about David Matthew Moore Date: 1999/10/11 Message-ID: <3801DD13.542FDE13@lucent.com>#1/1 You can say that again. > > Ohwell, this newsgroup was boring lately. We should thank the troll for > bringing us something interesting to talk about. > -- > Steve Sheldon email: sheldon@yuck.net > BSCS/MCSE url: http://www.sheldon.visi.com From: Yan Liu Subject: Re: the truth about David Matthew Moore Date: 1999/10/11 Message-ID: <3801DCE9.50D9896B@lucent.com>#1/1 Tom Holub wrote: > > In article , > Steve Sheldon wrote: > ) > ) So it appears you are guilty of slander. > ) > ) I find it interesting when people become far worse than those they are > )accusing. > > Slander is far worse than rape and child abuse? > -Tom In this case, yes, because it's people doing wrong things while being blinded by their "righteous" reasons. From: "John K. Lewis" Subject: Re: the truth about David Matthew Moore Date: 1999/10/11 Message-ID: <%NkM3.1626$%6.331055@news.itd.umich.edu>#1/1 David Matthew Moore wrote: > In rec.games.corewar wrain wrote: > : > : See [URL deleted] for the truth about this child molester > : and convicted rapist. > Note: I have never been to court. The web site is, of course, 100% fiction. > I don't know who is responsible for this libel. I can back him up on this one. He's never been to court. Heck, he doesn't even play tennis. John K. Lewis. From: "Ransom Smith" Subject: Re: Corewar beginner Date: 1999/10/11 Message-ID: #1/1 > How do I keep myself from scanning on top of myself? With the design of > this warrior, it knows when to start the coreclear when it tries to scan > itself. The SLT aim,#CORESIZE-50 detects this condition and the warrior > jumps to the start of the coreclear code. Try looking at Rave.red, that came with the pMARS. Just the first 4 or 5 lines should work. If you can't really tell what they do, load that file into the core with 'pmarsv rave.red -e', and look at it in the core debugger (cdb) > That JMP is to activate an imp-gate copied beyond the end of the code. If > you look at the start of the code, there is a MOV impgate,last+20. > > > > mov ammo2,@aim > > > jmp clear3 > > I wouldn't even have an impgate past the code. If you look at how they are constructed, you'll find that imps cant move backwards. If they did, that would defeat the purpose of an imp. Also, you could save some space by using the < mentioned earlier. It kills imps nicely. Just < the field where you want the imp to be. Also, I find that anchoring a backwards DJN in front of your warrior makes for a good imp-protector. > Where could I get information on faster techniques. > > > > impgate jmp.b 0,<-10 > > > ammo0 spl 0 > > > ammo1 jmp -1 > > > ammo2 dat #0,#0 > > > aim dat #0,#last+21 > > > aimold dat #0,#last+21 > > > last dat #0,#0 > > > end > > > I do realize that there is the >, <, }, and { addressing modes. However I > know that they can only increment or decrement. They can't do mod4 and > mod8 scanning. No, but they can do mod 1 clears. This is quite helpful. Let me know if you need anything more. Oh, and terminologywise, read the FAQ, it's really helpful. I think it's at http://www.paradise.net.nz/~anton/corewar-faq.html and it comes up every two weeks in here. (RGC) From: REMOVETOSPAMMEcodeguy@hotmail.com (Travis Bemann) Subject: Re: Corewar beginner Date: 1999/10/11 Message-ID: <3801c3be$0$11282@news.execpc.com>#1/1 In article <7tq8d6$fi0$1@lure.pipex.net>, "Robert Macrae" wrote: > > Could you give me some Corewar > > tips, > > Best one is to read Corewarrior, starting with issue #1! koth.org has > pointers to this and lots of other resources. > > > ;redcode-94 > > ;name Mauvestone > > ;author Travis Bemann > > ;strategy spl 0 scan-bomber, 2-pass coreclear, imp-gate > > ;assert 1 > > > > org boot > > step0 equ #4 > > step1 equ #6 > > step2 equ #2 > > boot mov impgate,last+20 > > scan0 add step0,aim > > scan1 jmz.f scan0,@aim > > slt aim,#CORESIZE-50 > > jmp clear0 > > This kind of warrior is a "Oneshot", which scans once and then starts > a clear on top of what it finds. > > It has a 0.5c scan, which is fine, but it looks forward in steps of > only +4, and will be very slow to find long warriors. I would > recommend trying larger steps (maybe up to 20 or so). For most kinds > of scanners you can also try much larger numbers like 2670 (2670 = > 2667+3, 3 x (2667+3) = 8001 + 9 = CORESIZE+10 -- if this doesn't make > sense, read up about imps!) has the effect of scanning in 3 trails, > each trail spaced 10 apart. Try some alternatives. How do I keep myself from scanning on top of myself? With the design of this warrior, it knows when to start the coreclear when it tries to scan itself. The SLT aim,#CORESIZE-50 detects this condition and the warrior jumps to the start of the coreclear code. > > mov ammo0,>aim > > mov ammo1,>aim > > add step1,aim > > jmp scan1 > > Is this ever executed? This code is executed if aim < CORESIZE-50. This is SPL 0 JMP -1 bombing code. The purpose of the > > clear0 mov aimold,aim > > clear1 add step2,aim > > slt aim,#CORESIZE-50 > > jmp clear2 > > mov ammo2,@aim > > jmp clear1 > > This loop seems to take 4 cycles to place 1 bomb, for 0.25c. I think > that something like a DClear would be more effective. Do you mean a DJN coreclear? I found that I needed something which would terminate other warriors once and for all. The DJN coreclear is fast but at most disables other warriors. The warriors are already disabled do to the SPL 0 JMP -1 bombing, so there is no purpose for a DJN coreclear here. This isn't meant to be fast. This combined with the next coreclear is designed to be very fatal to other warriors. I would like advice on how to speed this up. > > clear2 mov aimold,aim > > add #1,aim > > clear3 add step2,aim > > slt aim,#CORESIZE-50 > > jmp last+20 > > This JMP looks like suicide? last+20 is outside your warrior... That JMP is to activate an imp-gate copied beyond the end of the code. If you look at the start of the code, there is a MOV impgate,last+20. > > mov ammo2,@aim > > jmp clear3 > > Again, the clear is rather slow. DClear uses much the same idea, but > takes up far less space (so is harder to bomb) and clears faster. Where could I get information on faster techniques. > > impgate jmp.b 0,<-10 > > ammo0 spl 0 > > ammo1 jmp -1 > > ammo2 dat #0,#0 > > aim dat #0,#last+21 > > aimold dat #0,#last+21 > > last dat #0,#0 > > end > > There does not seem to be much wrong with the code, but it is long > which will makes it easy to kill. One trick you should study is using > the increment and decrement addressing modes -- >,<,} and {. These are > a key part of clears because tehy cut out an ADD instruction and save > a cycle. I do realize that there is the >, <, }, and { addressing modes. However I know that they can only increment or decrement. They can't do mod4 and mod8 scanning. > Some long warriors (like He Scans Alone) do well by having very fast, > very deadly attacks but the main loop of most warriors is only 3-5 > words long. Take a look at some oneshots -- there are lots of them; > mine is called Phantasm -- and see if you can use some of their tricks > to shorten your code. > > Regards, > Robert Macrae -- Travis Bemann From: jmoc34@snet.net Subject: Re: the truth about David Matthew Moore Date: 1999/10/11 Message-ID: <7ts5t2$ds7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>#1/1 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 In article , Niclas Fredriksson wrote: > On Mon, 11 Oct 1999 jmoc34@snet.net wrote: > > > We've added Dave's email address mooredav@cse.msu.edu > > to a list of screen names which do _not_ belong > > to the Dave Moore described at the web site > > http://www.fc.net/~wrain/dmtc.html. (That Dave > > has a middle initial beginning with a D; not > > an M). We don't want any innocent Dave Moores being > > victimized; we just want to point out the obnoxious > > troll who shares their name. > > > > Now all we have to do is track down the remaining > > Dave Moores who post to Usenet and put their names > > on the list too. Hope it won't take too long. > > Oh. "Guilty until proven innocent". Actually my intent is simply to keep innocent people from being harassed by an unscrupulous troll who shares their name. I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear in my original message. I'll attempt to do so now. I was not the original poster of the troll about the Dave Moore of this newsgroup - it came through an anonymous remailer and was not signed with PGP which I always do with my Usenet posts these days. It was probably posted by the Dave Moore described at the http://www.fc.net/~wrain/dmtc.html site. He's an ex-Marine from the Chicago area who is posting these days as freedom@anet.com when he doesn't use a remailer. His favorite group is alt.child-support although he posts to other groups too. Now why would the Moore who posts to alt.child-support spam unrelated newsgroups with our URL and make libellous allegations about the innocent Dave Moores who post there? It's simple - he wants the web pages of evidence against his net-abuse taken down by conning people who share his name into complaining about them. The reason I put up the list of names of Dave Moores is to prevent them from being further victimized by their evil alter-ego. That's always a healthy approach. > > Have fun with your witch burning project. Perhaps you could explain the meaning of your statement to me. Are you really sure you understand what's going on? > > Regards, > Niclas This is the last post I'll be making in this thread. I apologize to the readers of these newsgroups for the off-topic messages but I've been getting a lot of emails about this and want to set the record straight. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5 iQA/AwUBOAGZ94qnRC+Y7uU4EQL1/gCfW7koWU4/v3NrfUcePMvHlIqjMWcAoI1t T5yUCm+roeANNp7Gsm5mag02 =/Ffp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From: "L Crawford" Subject: Re: the truth about David Matthew Moore Date: 1999/10/11 Message-ID: #1/1 > Oh. "Guilty until proven innocent". That's always a healthy approach. > Have fun with your witch burning project. > Regards, > Niclas Thats exactly what I've been thinking too. I'd better hide my pointy hat... Lee aka It's Crommie! From: Niclas Fredriksson Subject: Re: the truth about David Matthew Moore Date: 1999/10/11 Message-ID: #1/1 On Mon, 11 Oct 1999 jmoc34@snet.net wrote: > We've added Dave's email address mooredav@cse.msu.edu > to a list of screen names which do _not_ belong > to the Dave Moore described at the web site > http://www.fc.net/~wrain/dmtc.html. (That Dave > has a middle initial beginning with a D; not > an M). We don't want any innocent Dave Moores being > victimized; we just want to point out the obnoxious > troll who shares their name. > > Now all we have to do is track down the remaining > Dave Moores who post to Usenet and put their names > on the list too. Hope it won't take too long. Oh. "Guilty until proven innocent". That's always a healthy approach. Have fun with your witch burning project. Regards, Niclas From: jmoc34@snet.net Subject: Re: the truth about David Matthew Moore Date: 1999/10/11 Message-ID: <7trnv9$3v8$1@nnrp1.deja.com>#1/1 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 We've added Dave's email address mooredav@cse.msu.edu to a list of screen names which do _not_ belong to the Dave Moore described at the web site http://www.fc.net/~wrain/dmtc.html. (That Dave has a middle initial beginning with a D; not an M). We don't want any innocent Dave Moores being victimized; we just want to point out the obnoxious troll who shares their name. Now all we have to do is track down the remaining Dave Moores who post to Usenet and put their names on the list too. Hope it won't take too long. In article , sheldon@visi.com (Steve Sheldon) wrote: > sheldon@visi.com (Steve Sheldon) writes: > > > I'm forwarding a copy of this to the postmaster at fc.net, as well as the > >postmaster at snet.net, which is where your real email address comes from. > >It's bad enough spamming usenet, it's worse when it's slanderous. > > Interesting. > > The individuals mentioned as the authors of the web site sent me email back > claiming that the original message was a forgery. > > Which is quite possible, as I've been the victim of such forgeries myself. > > Ohwell, this newsgroup was boring lately. We should thank the troll for > bringing us something interesting to talk about. > -- > Steve Sheldon email: sheldon@yuck.net > BSCS/MCSE url: http://www.sheldon.visi.com > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5 iQA/AwUBOAFh5IqnRC+Y7uU4EQJskgCdFFLkxjfYZUjPP2vSrl9+0BOTLmsAn1sm eXEFudyTCiMlzF64Tn8ibixD =YQSF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From: jkw@austin.rr.com Subject: Re: unbeatable warrior Date: 1999/10/12 Message-ID: <4.1.19991012164627.0096cef0@pop-server>#1/1 >1) Taking acombinatoric approach to all the bombing/splitting >possibilities looks totally unfeasible. >2) Good warriors sit on needle-like local maxima above a >near-featureless plain of mediocrity. This surface is too rough to map >in any way I can understand, so evidence based on known warriors will >never be more than indicative. I suppose the first thing to do would be to compile a list of every possible warrior which does NOT commit suicide before the 80,000th cycle. If we ignore pspace this should only take a couple hundred years to do. If we include pspace then it gets really difficult. From: Paul-V Khuong Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Ilmari's Mini-Tournament #2 Date: 1999/10/12 Message-ID: <19991013005232.28630.rocketmail@web115.yahoomail.com>#1/1 Paul Kline wrote: > > different and unexpected instead. I'll grant an > honorary mention to anyone > > who submits a working 4-line bomb dodger. :-) > > Well, I have a working 4-line stone-imp that made it > onto the NOP-hill ;-) what?? add.ab #step, 1 mov.i -2, somewhere spl -2 mov.i #0, 1 ???? anyway, do you know if it's feasible to builld a program that enumerates every warrior possible, provided the instruction set and the constraints, and then to make them fight one another(maybe like for the hills, have a set of 20 warriors that change with losses and wins...)... Oh, and to have it finish it job for the deadline??? that'd be, at most, 21 five liners(yup, org is important 8) on the hd, 1 fighting 184(?) times the 20 others... i think i'll submit some one-shot(which is all i will ever get 8) ===== Vive le Qu�bec libre... d� souverainistes!!! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From: Paul-V Khuong Subject: Re: Formal specification of redcode Date: 1999/10/12 Message-ID: <19991013003231.19191.rocketmail@web112.yahoomail.com>#1/1 Hilmar Nooitgedagt wrote: > Hi, > > Can anyone give me a pointer where I can find the > latest 'formal' > specification of redcode in BNF? BNF??? It'd be a waste of time to put redcode in BNF, i think... It's just operand[.instruction_modifier] [addressing_mode] number [,[addressing_mode] number] > I working on a project in which I parse and compile > sourcecodes and the > like. And redcode is a nice, not too complicated > language, to use as a > test-case. Uh... i wouldn't try doing it with all of redcode... SPL??? how do you implement _that_?? Anyway, it wouldn't be much of an introduction... it's so strict that you can get by with a bunch of CASE and functions 8( > I have the specification of ICWS'94 version 3.2, but > I believe there are > updates ,because I see new opcodes like SEQ and SNE > and new modifiers > like }. Oh, well, d/l pmars 0.8 and read the docs... there's a description of the operands... > Is there something like a new standard? Or is it > just an open > 'user-extendable' language? It's supposed to be ICWS '94, but then, it's dead 8) PMARS 0.8's redcode is pretty much the de facto standard, though... ===== Vive le Qu�bec libre... d� souverainistes!!! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From: jkw@austin.rr.com Subject: Re: unbeatable warrior Date: 1999/10/12 Message-ID: <4.1.19991012163441.0096b9b0@pop-server>#1/1 >[1] The definition of this obviously depends on the battle parameters. >However there is some hope that a proof, if one is constructed, might be >sufficiently general to apply to all sets satisfying certain constaints. An 'unbeatable warrior' in a random warrior placement arrangement, ie "-F unknown" would be beaten by a warrior which was optimized for it's particular known -F if anything less than 7900*2 battles were simulated. From: Paul Kline Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Ilmari's Mini-Tournament #2 Date: 1999/10/12 Message-ID: <7u039r$poi@ng1.icn.state.ia.us>#1/1 Wayne wrote: >Thanks Paul. Now I know that I can beat your program. I suggest >everyone else get their tests in against him too. ;> In the middle of another tournament I once asked the net if anyone had a program to beat Snake. This must be your long-awaited revenge! Paul Kline pk6811s@acad.drake.edu (could be a decoy of course ;-) From: Richard Rognlie Subject: How do we stop this? (Was: FAQ on pedophile David Matthew Moore) Date: 1999/10/12 Message-ID: <3803732B.C390D8CD@gamerz.net>#1/1 "Jane... you ignorant slut!" 1. What does this have to do with corewar? --> Nothing 2. The Bozo who posted earlier has already established that "our" David Moore is not "the" David Moore. So why post here with more of this drivel? --> Troll 3. How do we get anonymous posters like this banned for life? --> contact the Cabal (TINC) Full headers for the benefit of the Cabal (TINC) Path: reader2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!news.alt.net!anon.lcs.mit.edu!nym.alias.net!mail2news Date: 12 Oct 1999 13:25:37 -0000 Subject: FAQ on pedophile David Matthew Moore Newsgroups: rec.games.corewar X-No-Archive: Yes Message-ID: <0e226bf60dbe0bff6f49c6a68ead9e25@anonymous.poster> Sender: Secret Squirrel Comments: Please report problems with this automated remailing service to . The message sender's identity is unknown, unlogged, and not replyable. From: squirrel@echelon.alias.net (wrain) Mail-To-News-Contact: postmaster@nym.alias.net Organization: mail2news@nym.alias.net Lines: 6 Xref: reader2.news.rcn.net rec.games.corewar:12266 -- / \__ | Richard Rognlie / Sendmail Consultant / Sendmail, Inc. \__/ \ | URL: http://www.gamerz.net/rrognlie/ / \__/ | Give a man a fish, and he'll be hungry tomorrow. Teach a \__/ | man to fish, and he'll be at the river all day drinking beer. From: "Wayne Sheppard" Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Ilmari's Mini-Tournament #2 Date: 1999/10/12 Message-ID: #1/1 Paul Kline wrote in message news:7tvdca$odq@ng1.icn.state.ia.us... > > different and unexpected instead. I'll grant an honorary mention to anyone > > who submits a working 4-line bomb dodger. :-) > > Well, I have a working 4-line stone-imp that made it onto the NOP-hill ;-) > > Paul Thanks Paul. Now I know that I can beat your program. I suggest everyone else get their tests in against him too. ;> Program "Testing" (length 4) by "Wayne" Program "test" (length 4) by "P.Kline" Testing wins: 154 test wins: 96 Ties: 0 From: "Wayne Sheppard" Subject: Re: unbeatable warrior Date: 1999/10/12 Message-ID: #1/1 wrote in message news:7tuj0n$dr1$1@news.asu.edu... > : > precise, I'd say that warrior A does not beat warrior B if warrior B wins > : > at least as many times as warrior A does if we let them play against each > : > other in every possible placement. > > : According to your definition, no warrior could beat itself. Therefore > : unless you forbid self-fights, there is no unbeatable warrior. > > I don't see the problem. I am talking about an unbeatable warrior not a > about a warrior that wins all the time. So ties are ok. My mistake, I misread it (some 15 times) Wayne From: "Wayne Sheppard" Subject: Re: unbeatable warrior Date: 1999/10/12 Message-ID: <%lIM3.3019$QI5.158122@monger.newsread.com>#1/1 Ilmari Karonen wrote in message news:7tv4lj$4gu$1@tron.sci.fi... > The conjecture might even quite possibly be false: by definition an > unbeatable warrior need not be a very succesful one. A warrior that scored > 100% ties[2] would satisfy the requirement for unbeatability, and it seems > entirely possible that such a highly defensive warrior might exist. > > [2] Except against suicidal opponents, of course, and a few losses are > acceptable if balanced by as many or more wins. A better way to state this > might be that an unbeatable warrior may score an arbitrarily large number > of ties. Not contradicting you.... just clarifying 100% ties (or wins) is impossible. A one line bomber (mov -1,1000) will get one win if you consider every starting position. I would think that an unbeatable warrior would have a high number of ties. Wayne From: Paul Kline Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Ilmari's Mini-Tournament #2 Date: 1999/10/12 Message-ID: <7tvdfg$odq@ng1.icn.state.ia.us>#1/1 Our newsfeed is lagging terribly these days. What is the deadline for submissions? Paul Kline pk6811s@acad.drake.edu From: Paul Kline Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Ilmari's Mini-Tournament #2 Date: 1999/10/12 Message-ID: <7tvdca$odq@ng1.icn.state.ia.us>#1/1 > different and unexpected instead. I'll grant an honorary mention to anyone > who submits a working 4-line bomb dodger. :-) Well, I have a working 4-line stone-imp that made it onto the NOP-hill ;-) Paul From: "Ransom Smith" Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Ilmari's Mini-Tournament #2 Date: 1999/10/12 Message-ID: #1/1 > different and unexpected instead. I'll grant an honorary mention to anyone > who submits a working 4-line bomb dodger. :-) Works for me. I've got one, but my regular warrior can stomp it. I really don't suppose you would accept both? Didn't think so. Note: Limit one entry per contestant per household per visit per day :-) From: Ilmari Karonen Subject: Re: unbeatable warrior Date: 1999/10/12 Message-ID: <7tv4lj$4gu$1@tron.sci.fi>#1/1 On 12 Oct 1999 10:00:46 GMT, David Matthew Moore (mooredav@cse.msu.edu) wrote: : No, a warrior that ties against itself is not "beaten." It may still be : unbeatable. : This is an interesting problem. A good solution will likely be much longer : than two lines. I wish that I had time to investigate. It would likely be much longer. We know that there are sets of warriors where each member of the set is beaten by at least one other member, and we know there are sets where at least one of the members is unbeatable. The question is which group the set of all warriors[1] belongs to. Now I would conjecture that it belongs to the former, since it seems likely that for any given warrior it should be possible to construct a "retrowarrior" that will win most of the time by using the reverse of the attack pattern of its opponent, much like RetroQ did to the Probe qscan. Proving this would require both proving that such a reverse pattern can be produced for all potentially unbeatable warriors, and that such a retrowarrior can if fact beat its opponent. Unfortunately both proofs depend fundamentally on the instruction set used (as well as many other details), and even removing all irrelevant details would still leave one with a huge number of cases requiring individual consideration. The conjecture might even quite possibly be false: by definition an unbeatable warrior need not be a very succesful one. A warrior that scored 100% ties[2] would satisfy the requirement for unbeatability, and it seems entirely possible that such a highly defensive warrior might exist. [1] The definition of this obviously depends on the battle parameters. However there is some hope that a proof, if one is constructed, might be sufficiently general to apply to all sets satisfying certain constaints. [2] Except against suicidal opponents, of course, and a few losses are acceptable if balanced by as many or more wins. A better way to state this might be that an unbeatable warrior may score an arbitrarily large number of ties. -- Ilmari Karonen http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/ From: David Matthew Moore Subject: Re: unbeatable warrior Date: 1999/10/12 Message-ID: <7tv0se$6va$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu>#1/1 Wayne Sheppard wrote: : wrote in message news:7tojl2$7km$1@news.asu.edu... :> Can anyone give a proof that there is no unbeatable warrior. To make it :> precise, I'd say that warrior A does not beat warrior B if warrior B wins :> at least as many times as warrior A does if we let them play against each :> other in every possible placement. :> :> Nandor. : According to your definition, no warrior could beat itself. Therefore : unless you forbid self-fights, there is no unbeatable warrior. No, a warrior that ties against itself is not "beaten." It may still be unbeatable. This is an interesting problem. A good solution will likely be much longer than two lines. I wish that I had time to investigate. -- David Moore (not the alt.child-support scumbag) mooredav@cse.msu.edu From: Ilmari Karonen Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Ilmari's Mini-Tournament #2 Date: 1999/10/12 Message-ID: <7tut9l$qh$1@tron.sci.fi>#1/1 On 12 Oct 1999 08:47:37 GMT, Philip Kendall (pak@ast.cam.ac.uk) wrote: : : * Since it would be pointless to fight 200 rounds in an 80-instruction core, : : I will modify pMARS to run every possible placement and starting order in : : a random sequence. : What about pspace? :-) That's why it'll be randomly permutated. -- Ilmari Karonen http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/ From: pak@ast.cam.ac.uk (Philip Kendall) Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Ilmari's Mini-Tournament #2 Date: 1999/10/12 Message-ID: <7tusj9$lvr$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>#1/1 : coresize: 80 : max. processes: 80 : duration: after 800 cycles, a tie will be declared : max. entry length: 4 : minimum distance: 4 : rounds fought: 146* : instruction set: ICWS '94 Draft : * Since it would be pointless to fight 200 rounds in an 80-instruction core, : I will modify pMARS to run every possible placement and starting order in : a random sequence. What about pspace? :-) Phil -- / Philip Kendall (pak21@cam.ac.uk pak21@kendalls.demon.co.uk) \ \ http://www.kendalls.demon.co.uk/pak21/index.html / From: "Robert Macrae" Subject: Re: unbeatable warrior Date: 1999/10/12 Message-ID: <7tul91$i2c$1@lure.pipex.net>#1/1 Wayne Sheppard wrote in message news:uQsM3.2551$QI5.137956@monger.newsread.com... > > wrote in message news:7tojl2$7km$1@news.asu.edu... > > Can anyone give a proof that there is no unbeatable warrior. To make it > > precise, I'd say that warrior A does not beat warrior B if warrior B wins > > at least as many times as warrior A does if we let them play against each > > other in every possible placement. > > > > Nandor. > > According to your definition, no warrior could beat itself. Therefore > unless you forbid self-fights, there is no unbeatable warrior. "No warrior could beat itself" therefore two identical warriors could *both* be unbeaten. This is not a problem unless you are reading the problem as no _single_ unbeatable warrior... If we use PMars then possibly a proof can be constructed using the properties of the pseudorandom placing algorithm; you can bound how long it takes to find a given size of warrior, after which you kill it every time. However with true random placement some other approach would be needed... I think it is rather unlikely that one exists. 1) Taking acombinatoric approach to all the bombing/splitting possibilities looks totally unfeasible. 2) Good warriors sit on needle-like local maxima above a near-featureless plain of mediocrity. This surface is too rough to map in any way I can understand, so evidence based on known warriors will never be more than indicative. Anyone feeling more constructive? Robert Macrae From: sieben@imap1.asu.edu Subject: Re: unbeatable warrior Date: 1999/10/12 Message-ID: <7tuj0n$dr1$1@news.asu.edu>#1/1 : > precise, I'd say that warrior A does not beat warrior B if warrior B wins : > at least as many times as warrior A does if we let them play against each : > other in every possible placement. : According to your definition, no warrior could beat itself. Therefore : unless you forbid self-fights, there is no unbeatable warrior. I don't see the problem. I am talking about an unbeatable warrior not a about a warrior that wins all the time. So ties are ok. : results would still be a tie? You could make cosmetic changes to warrior A. : Change an unused B-field or add an extra dat 0,0 at the end. But maybe the : unbeatable warrior was already max length and every field was important. My question is about existence not uniquness. Nandor. From: sieben@imap1.asu.edu Subject: Re: Formal specification of redcode Date: 1999/10/12 Message-ID: <7tuj58$dr1$2@news.asu.edu>#1/1 There is a BNF in the pMARS distribution. Nandor. Hilmar Nooitgedagt (Nooitgedagt_REMOVE_THIS_@bigfoot.com) wrote: : Can anyone give me a pointer where I can find the latest 'formal' : specification of redcode in BNF? From: nrgamer@aol.com (NrGamer) Subject: TNT2 Ultra 32Meg TV/Out SVideo/Out DVD Date: 1999/10/12 Message-ID: <19991012004913.18130.00000634@ng-ch1.aol.com> TNT2 Ultra 32Meg TV/Out SVideo/Out DVD

Note Diamond Viper V770 TNT2 ULTRA has no TV/Out 3D Blaster TNT2 Ultra Has Bad DVD Support and is Slower I'M Selling the WINFAST S320 TNT2 Ultra 32Meg

I have a WinFast 32mb S320 II AGP2x/4x TNT2 Ultra TV/Out SVideo/Out DVD Encoder card all in one. Just bought decided I don't need it Still in Shrink Wrap with Full Warranty and Reciet of Purchase Place. Includes Latest Video Drivers & DVD Software. Comes with Special Software to Over Clock Graphics Clock and Over Clock Memory Clock. Includes Cooling Fan Mounted on Video Card. Graphics Clock & Memory Clock can be Clocked up to 230MHZ Succesfully with a Fast Computer and enough Cooling for the Video Card. Recommend Bigger Fan if Clocking that high. {More Info on Video Card at} http://www.leadtek.com/ S320II Includes Full Version Beta Games that I am Giving with the Card. Games Included are Drakan, Heavy Gear2, Lego Racers, Revolt, Half-Life, MDK and RogueSquadron. {For Shipping we Both go Half on Cost and I'll ship however you want. Here are the Specs from Computer Games Magazine Nov, 1999 P.75 Asking $150.00 Remember you get those Games to and it comes with Special Software to Over Clock the Card

Please Reply if Interrested. Statistics and Frame Rates Below

16-bit color 640X680

3D Blaster VS.Viper V770 VS. Winfast

3D Mark 99 Max-----6156--------------6834--------------7039 Unreal--------------------69.7---------------68.4---------------69.6 Quake II Crusher-----60.9---------------60.0---------------71.1 Quake III Test---------68.9---------------67.3---------------85.9 Descent 3--------------73.9---------------74.1---------------71.7

_________________________________________________ 800X600

3D Mark 99 Max-----5984--------------6469--------------6833 Unreal--------------------61.8---------------62.3---------------62.2 Quake II Crusher-----58.5---------------59.3---------------66.5 Quake III Test----------64.9--------------57.3---------------61.4 Descent 3---------------70.8--------------73.2---------------71.7

_________________________________________________ 1024X768

3D Mark 99 Max-----4608--------------5296--------------6300 Unreal--------------------46.7---------------50.4---------------50.3 Quake II Crusher-----48.7---------------51.8---------------51.6 Quake III Test---------45.1----------------37.1--------------40.9 Descent 3--------------56.2----------------62.2---------------64.9

_________________________________________________ 1280X1024

3D Mark 99 Max-----2651--------------3098--------------4022 Unreal--------------------30.5---------------32.2---------------34.8 Quake II Crusher-----NA------------------NA----------------NA Quake III Test---------27.2---------------22.3--------------25.4 Descent 3--------------37.4---------------41.8---------------44.2

_________________________________________________ _________________________________________________

32-bit color 640X680

3D Blaster VS.Viper V770 VS. Winfast

3D Mark 99 Max-----6000--------------6519--------------6699 Unreal--------------------59.3---------------62.0---------------59.6 Quake II Crusher-----60------------------60.1---------------66.6 Quake III Test---------64.2----------------61.7--------------73.9 Descent 3--------------72.4----------------73.7---------------71.7

_________________________________________________ 800X600

3D Mark 99 Max-----4993--------------5445--------------5364 Unreal--------------------42.1---------------43.8--------------43.9 Quake II Crusher-----55.8---------------56.4---------------58.6 Quake III Test---------45.3---------------43.6---------------47.6 Descent 3--------------63.1----------------64.7--------------67.9

_________________________________________________ 1024X768

3D Mark 99 Max-----3585--------------3789--------------3696 Unreal--------------------28.2---------------28.0---------------28.1 Quake II Crusher-----40.3---------------39.5---------------43.5 Quake III Test---------27.4----------------26.1--------------32.1 Descent 3--------------42.8----------------44.6--------------49.3

_________________________________________________ 1280X1024

3D Mark 99 Max-----1892--------------1970--------------2042 Unreal--------------------15.1--------------16.8--------------15.2 Quake II Crusher------NA----------------NA----------------NA Quake III Test---------16.5--------------15.5--------------18.6 Descent 3--------------24.9--------------25.8--------------26.2

Hope this helps you

From: "Hilmar Nooitgedagt" Subject: Formal specification of redcode Date: 1999/10/12 Message-ID: <7tu55n$16vv$1@buty.wanadoo.nl>#1/1 Hi, Can anyone give me a pointer where I can find the latest 'formal' specification of redcode in BNF? I working on a project in which I parse and compile sourcecodes and the like. And redcode is a nice, not too complicated language, to use as a test-case. I have the specification of ICWS'94 version 3.2, but I believe there are updates ,because I see new opcodes like SEQ and SNE and new modifiers like }. Is there something like a new standard? Or is it just an open 'user-extendable' language? Hilmar From: sheldon@visi.com (Steve Sheldon) Subject: Re: the truth about David Matthew Moore Date: 1999/10/12 Message-ID: <5dwM3.1073$b84.164887@ptah.visi.com>#1/1 ntcommon@heron.eecs.umich.edu (Daniel Damouth) writes: >Remember, most poeple have only a vague understanding >of how Usenet and email work, and have limited >experience with forgeries like this. Actually I've seen a number of very similar postings come across mn.general which are definately not forgeries. It's usually some person who is pissed off with some guy who lives in Minnesota who posted something nasty to a support forum. They have now taken it upon themselves to let the world know how nasty this person is. As if everybody in Minnesota is supposed to know who he is. And it's rather typical that the messages are sent from anonymous remailers. Anyway, this one didn't really look like a forgery until two days later when the exact same message was posted to mn.general accusing Dave Moore of WCCO television of the same thing. Funny thing, Dave Moore of WCCO has been dead for a while. He was also pretty old and I rather doubt he ever used usenet. :) -- Steve Sheldon email: sheldon@yuck.net BSCS/MCSE url: http://www.sheldon.visi.com From: "Robert Macrae" Subject: Re: Corewar beginner Date: 1999/10/12 Message-ID: <7tttvt$5kg$1@lure.pipex.net>#1/1 > How do I keep myself from scanning on top of myself? With the design of > this warrior, it knows when to start the coreclear when it tries to scan > itself. The SLT aim,#CORESIZE-50 detects this condition and the warrior > jumps to the start of the coreclear code. You take about 4000 cycles to get round core... if you make it, your opponent must be asleep! I usually make my oneshots scan something non-damaging (a DJN trail or a bit of decoy) so that if by chance they do make it that far, they just start clearing. > > that something like a DClear would be more effective. > > Do you mean a DJN coreclear? Something like: gate DAT 0, db+3 for 5 DAT 0,0 rof SPL 0, 0 MOV db, >gate end DJN.f -1, >gate db dat 1, end+3 It is a little gem, simple and deadly, courtesy Bjoern Guenzel. > I found that I needed something which would > terminate other warriors once and for all. Just the ticket! > That JMP is to activate an imp-gate copied beyond the end of the code. If > you look at the start of the code, there is a MOV impgate,last+20. Sorry, missed it. Usually it pays to build your gate into the clear, so that you stay protected against imps while you keep trying to clear them. Of course this kind of compromise means that the gate may be less effective... > Where could I get information on faster techniques. Look at some of the code on Planar's website. Some of the pspacers are handy; ignore the p-engine, and just look at the components because these tend to be fairly compact and simple. > I do realize that there is the >, <, }, and { addressing modes. However I > know that they can only increment or decrement. They can't do mod4 and > mod8 scanning. Right, but they are handy for the clear. Robert Macrae From: Ilmari Karonen Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Ilmari's Mini-Tournament #2 Date: 1999/10/13 Message-ID: <7u25i6$olm$1@tron.sci.fi>#1/1 On 13 Oct 1999 03:24:30 -0400, Brian Haskin Jr. (haskin@ptway.com) wrote: : : > I will modify pMARS to run every possible placement and : > starting order in a random sequence. : Would you consider releasing this modified version? I could post a diff here, as soon as I get around to actually writing it. -- Ilmari Karonen http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/ From: "Brian Haskin Jr." Subject: RE: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Ilmari's Mini-Tournament #2 Date: 1999/10/13 Message-ID: <000301bf152d$1cbfb2a0$0b00000a@haskin.org>#1/1 > -----Original Message----- > From: corewar-l@koth.org [mailto:corewar-l@koth.org]On Behalf Of Ilmari > Karonen > Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 6:30 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L > Subject: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Ilmari's Mini-Tournament #2 > [snip] > > * Since it would be pointless to fight 200 rounds in an > 80-instruction core, > I will modify pMARS to run every possible placement and > starting order in > a random sequence. > Would you consider releasing this modified version? Brian Haskin haskin@ptway.com Home page: http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/4333/ Always remember, money is simply a level of indirection. From: "Robert Macrae" Subject: Re: unbeatable warrior Date: 1999/10/14 Message-ID: <7u58m6$q66$2@lure.pipex.net>#1/1 wrote in message news:7tojl2$7km$1@news.asu.edu... > Can anyone give a proof that there is no unbeatable warrior. To make it > precise, I'd say that warrior A does not beat warrior B if warrior B wins > at least as many times as warrior A does if we let them play against each > other in every possible placement. Perhaps we can nibble away at it. A (possibly) easier question is "Does there exist for every warrior an opponent it cannot beat?" This shares a huge amount of common territory with the above, and might be illuminating... Robert Macrae From: "Robert Macrae" Subject: Re: Corewar beginner Date: 1999/10/14 Message-ID: <7u58m6$q66$1@lure.pipex.net>#1/1 > I might replace thise SPL 0 JMP -1 with a > simple DJN loop coreclear. This would not be as effective, but it would > be far faster. Or use a simple SPL 0 carpet. This stuns even more effectively than SPL/JMP, and is much easier to lay. ... > What's the URL? The archive is: http://pauillac.inria.fr/~doligez/corewar/ A good general starting point is http://www.koth.org/ Between them you can find everything else! Robert From: colemanr@marietta.edu Subject: Re: unbeatable warrior Date: 1999/10/14 Message-ID: <7u4nmo$ke7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>#1/1 In article <7tul91$i2c$1@lure.pipex.net>, "Robert Macrae" wrote: > 2) Good warriors sit on needle-like local maxima above a > near-featureless plain of mediocrity. This surface is too rough to map > in any way I can understand, so evidence based on known warriors will > never be more than indicative. > > Anyone feeling more constructive? > Not really. But your conjecture is correct. The best human-made warriors cannot be further tuned by adjusting constants, because the best human-made warriors use constants picked for their specific combinations. The problem is that the map has at least 6^20+1 dimensions for baby-size warriors, and the direction of 'warrior goodness' is pretty hard to measure except against a set of warriors. It may be very possible to 'search' this n-dimensioned map against a set of test warriors until you produce a warrior that might beat all of them half the time or something, but increasing the dimensions to the 6^200+7 in a typical size warrior makes the map unsearchable by any methods available to us today. In fact, searching the baby-size map proves to be a task in itself. Using evolutionary algorithms, I was able to find some local maxima, but jumping deep troughs of minima was not possible when I tried it the first time. > Robert Macrae > Ryan 'hey, i bet geocities took down that evolutionary paper I wrote, I should repost it at my college site' Coleman Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From: "Brian Haskin Jr." Subject: RE: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Ilmari's Mini-Tournament #2 Date: 1999/10/14 Message-ID: <000b01bf15f3$810221a0$0b00000a@haskin.org>#1/1 > -----Original Message----- > From: corewar-l@koth.org [mailto:corewar-l@koth.org]On Behalf Of Ilmari > Karonen > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 11:31 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L > Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Ilmari's Mini-Tournament #2 > > > On 13 Oct 1999 03:24:30 -0400, Brian Haskin Jr. (haskin@ptway.com) wrote: > : > : > I will modify pMARS to run every possible placement and > : > starting order in a random sequence. > : Would you consider releasing this modified version? > > I could post a diff here, as soon as I get around to actually writing it. > That'd be great, thanks. Brian Haskin haskin@ptway.com Home page: http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/4333/ Always remember, money is simply a level of indirection. From: "Wayne Sheppard" Subject: Re: unbeatable warrior Date: 1999/10/15 Message-ID: #1/1 wrote in message news:4.1.19991015080247.00930a30@pop-server... > At 07:48 AM 10/15/99 -0400, you wrote: > > > Ie, even if a warrior is unbeatable, the odds are very > good that it wouldn't even make it onto the koth/pizza > hills. Begging the question, is there a -best- warrior? :) An unbeatable warrior might not make it on the hill because the hill uses a different scoring system. The hill encourages losses as long as you get some wins too. The unbeatable warrior that scores 1-0-99 (total 103) gets less points than one that scores 35-65-0 (total 105). Could we have a different scoring system that encouraged unbeatable warriors? W=1 L= -1 T=0? This would definitely change the makeup of the hill. IMO, there is no unbeatable warrior, but the problem is so large and complex that a proof is impossible. It is fairly easy to design a warrior to beat any one specific warrior. Sounds like we should have some more white-warrior contests. Wayne From: jkw@austin.rr.com Subject: Re: unbeatable warrior Date: 1999/10/15 Message-ID: <4.1.19991015121341.0096f8e0@pop-server>#1/1 > 1. What about replicators? Can we assume that there really exists a > retrowarrior for every warrior? Hehe... what's the retrowarrior for an imp spiral? :) From: Ilmari Karonen Subject: Re: unbeatable warrior Date: 1999/10/15 Message-ID: <7u7dn1$3sf$1@tron.sci.fi>#1/1 On 15 Oct 1999 07:48:54 -0400, M Joonas Pihlaja (jpihlaja@cc.helsinki.fi) wrote: : Basically all any warrior does is try to kill the opponent by : putting deadly stuff on top of it, yes? So, imagine that all : warriors are one instruction long and all they do is bomb core in : an arbitrary but fixed sequence. [snip proof about retrowarriors] I used more or less the same reasoning in my earlier post. However, trying to generalize this to multi-instruction warriors presents two nontrivial questions: 1. What about replicators? Can we assume that there really exists a retrowarrior for every warrior? 2. What if a warrior is hit but survives? Even if we assume that the retrowarrior is throwing "Lose Immediately" -bombs with overwrite protection, it may still take time for the bomb to get executed, and the retrowarrior might die meanwhile. In other words, even if a retrowarrior exists, can we assume it indeed beats the original? : This more or less completes the sketch of a proof that for these : types of warriors, the answer is yes. : Ok, so that's wasn't very illuminating either. :-( Indeed, this is exactly the kind of complex problem that can easily be simplified to yield an elegant solution which doesn't generalize to the original problem. For example, the minor simplification of removing MOV.I from the '94 instruction set is easily proven to produce the opposite answer. -- Ilmari Karonen http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/ From: jkw@austin.rr.com Subject: Re: unbeatable warrior Date: 1999/10/15 Message-ID: <4.1.19991015080247.00930a30@pop-server>#1/1 At 07:48 AM 10/15/99 -0400, you wrote: > >Duh, > >It just occured to me that I could have said 'RetroQ' and be >done with it. Ignore the longwinded post about three line stones >with retrostep I sent earlier. And I thought it was so clever >this morning showering away happily. :-/ > >Joonas Haha... this reminds me of a PBS show I watched a while ago on statistics as it relates to voting. It talk about how the method by which voting success is tallied can swing the results dramatically. Ie, even if a warrior is unbeatable, the odds are very good that it wouldn't even make it onto the koth/pizza hills. Begging the question, is there a -best- warrior? :) -jkw From: M Joonas Pihlaja Subject: Re: unbeatable warrior Date: 1999/10/15 Message-ID: #1/1 Duh, It just occured to me that I could have said 'RetroQ' and be done with it. Ignore the longwinded post about three line stones with retrostep I sent earlier. And I thought it was so clever this morning showering away happily. :-/ Joonas From: M Joonas Pihlaja Subject: Re: unbeatable warrior Date: 1999/10/15 Message-ID: #1/1 > On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Robert Macrae wrote: > Perhaps we can nibble away at it. A (possibly) easier > question is "Does there exist for every warrior an opponent > it cannot beat?" This shares a huge amount of common > territory with the above, and might be illuminating... I suppose we have to simplify things quite drastically to get anywhere. Basically all any warrior does is try to kill the opponent by putting deadly stuff on top of it, yes? So, imagine that all warriors are one instruction long and all they do is bomb core in an arbitrary but fixed sequence. Now any warrior can be represented as a sequence (x_i) = (x_1, x_2, ..., x_{maxcycles} ) of cells in core that are bombed, one cell per cycle. These would be relative to the warriors own position of course. Suppose a warrior never suicides and that it bombs mod-1. Let P = (p_i) be a warrior. Consider the warrior Q = (q_i) defined by q_i = -p_{i+1} (mod CORESIZE). For all starting positions k != p_1 for Q, Q will always win. That's assuming a pretty rich instruction set. :) The same strategy should work more for single process warriors with length larger than 1 but much smaller than CORESIZE. e.g. for the class of three liners: add #step,#1 mov 2,@-1 jmp-2 This more or less completes the sketch of a proof that for these types of warriors, the answer is yes. Ok, so that's wasn't very illuminating either. :-( > Robert Macrae Joonas From: Yimjo Subject: Re: the truth about David Matthew Moore Date: 1999/10/15 Message-ID: <3806BC0C.DDDC11C8@home.com>#1/1 Steve Sheldon wrote: > > David Matthew Moore writes: > > >Okay, a little research shows that this guy posted to almost every Usenet > >group that has a "Dave Moore" > > Yup. > > >Note that the middle name of the subject is omitted from the web site > >(i.e. there is no occurence of "Matthew"). That's because the same web site > >is used for each occurence of "Dave Moore" on the Usenet. > > Interesting to note the little thing at the bottom... > > The Dave Moores listed below are not the person I'm talking about... Sorry > for accusing them of nasty things. > > >That is the curse of having a common name. I was one of 3 DM's in my high > >school. I got a lot of mysterious "overdue book" notices from the school > >library... > > There's a guy in the nearby town named Steve Shelton. We get each others > phone calls. :) My parents' names are Rich and Sherrill Thirsk, and there is another couple in our city of ~850,000 with the names Rick and Shirley Thirsk. Their number is unlisted in the phone book, so my parents have gotten plenty of calls. Some people want money, some are drunk, and some people drive across the country, come to my parent's door, and leave swearing because they came to the wrong house. Is r.g.corewar alive at all? Jared From: p1@blinker.net (Bjoern) Subject: Re: unbeatable warrior Date: 1999/10/18 Message-ID: <380b958e.5655158@NEWS.FREE4ALL.CO.UK>#1/1 On 18 Oct 1999 13:21:04 -0400, jkw@austin.rr.com wrote: >At 11:30 AM 10/17/99 -0400, you wrote: >>On Sat, 16 Oct 1999, Robert Macrae wrote: >> >>> For pure pattern scanners and bombers, the retro-warrior approach >>> works. >> >>Out of curiousity, I tried to make an anti-carbonite with the >>same form as carbonite. (I guess we'd all welcome such a warrior >>:) ). It turns out that it can't be done. i.e. >> >>i.e. spl 0 >>mv mov step , 1+step*time >>tgt add.ab {0,}0 >> jmp -2 >> >>with step = -197. >> >>The reason is that with step 197, to hit the target line last, >>you first hit mv+(16, 7, 5, 3) and finally tgt = mv+1 (these >>represent the different bombing runs[1] locally). But for >>step = -197, the sequence before hitting tgt is mv+(..., 120, 43, >>9, 2), which means you _have_to_ hit the jmp line before hitting >>tgt. Hm, I only tried this once with dwarves, I am still not very familiar with Carbonite. Anyway, for the dwarves, in general the retro-dwarves were suicidal, but nevertheless they would beat the dwarf they were designed to beat. Too lazy to consider your carbonite example, just asking if you are sure that it can't be done... The retro-warrior doesn't need to be any good, as long as it beats that particular warrior. I suppose the spl complicates things compared to the dwarfes, though, since hitting first ONCE is perhaps not enough. Bombing with mov.i #0,<4 or something like that might be an option, but that's not 4 lines anymore. [...] Bjoern -- always look on the bright side of death (e.glavas) From: "Wayne Sheppard" Subject: Re: unbeatable warrior Date: 1999/10/18 Message-ID: #1/1 > Is it possible there could be an IWT unbeatable warrior? :) (assuming you meant IMT) 4 lines looks very difficult to analyze. Even two lines is not easy. For one-liners, there are unbeatable warriors. Anything similar to a "jmp #" is unbeatable. Examining 2-line warriors, there doesn't appear to be anything unbeatable. With only a limited number of strategies, there seems to always be a counter-strategy. Wayne From: birk@andromeda.ociw.edu Subject: Re: unbeatable warrior Date: 1999/10/18 Message-ID: <199910181902.MAA14295@andromeda.ociw.edu>#1/1 > The answer depends on what we mean by best. One definition could be that > the best warrior has the best score after playing with all possible > opponents. I think this warrior would not make it onto any hill either. > >Nandor. I just test-submitted 'Pattel's Virus' (#1 on OPEN-Koenigstuhl == best warrior written so far) and it would have made the Pizza-94 hill as #3: # %W / %L / %T Name Author Score Age 1 38.7/ 35.4/ 25.9 Origami Harquebus mjp 142.1 2 2 38.4/ 35.5/ 26.2 Self-Modifying Code Ben Ford 141.2 54 3 39.8/ 39.6/ 20.6 Pattel's Virus Ben Ford 139.9 1 4 35.5/ 31.4/ 33.0 Vilex Ken Espiritu 139.6 6 5 32.0/ 26.0/ 42.0 Stonewashed Christian Schmidt 138.0 48 6 37.6/ 37.2/ 25.2 Recycled Bits David Moore 137.9 108 7 29.7/ 23.8/ 46.5 Exor Ken Espiritu 135.5 11 8 29.1/ 23.3/ 47.6 EvoP 3 Ken Espiritu 134.9 11 9 37.8/ 41.6/ 20.6 Snowman John Metcalf 134.0 52 10 28.8/ 24.1/ 47.1 Jade Ben Ford 133.5 31 11 25.9/ 18.6/ 55.5 Return of the Fugitive David Moore 133.2 35 12 25.4/ 18.0/ 56.6 Cinammon John Metcalf 132.7 4 13 28.0/ 24.1/ 47.9 Jaguar Christian Schmidt 131.9 5 14 35.6/ 39.6/ 24.9 Stranger John Metcalf 131.6 65 15 25.7/ 19.9/ 54.4 Safety in Numbers Ken Espiritu 131.4 5 16 33.6/ 36.2/ 30.2 Am I alive? Christian Schmidt 131.0 7 17 36.9/ 43.1/ 20.1 SnooPy P.Kline 130.6 1 18 36.8/ 43.0/ 20.2 myBlur2 Paulsson 130.6 19 19 35.1/ 39.7/ 25.2 death by redcode Simon Wainwright 130.5 87 20 24.4/ 18.7/ 56.9 No More Innocuous Leonardo H. Liporati 130.0 40 21 37.8/ 45.7/ 16.5 Ignominy Ian Sutton 129.8 8 22 31.4/ 33.1/ 35.4 The Stormbringer Christian Schmidt 129.7 108 23 28.2/ 27.1/ 44.7 nPaper II Paul-V Khuong 129.2 11 24 37.4/ 45.7/ 16.9 Stalker P.Kline 129.1 8 25 36.8/ 45.1/ 18.1 Jinx Christian Schmidt 128.5 2 Note W%=39.8! Using a different scoring algorithm (e.g. W=1,L=-1,T=0) would move it further down the hill; but it would have made the hill anyway. Christoph From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - Standard 10/18/99 Date: 1999/10/18 Message-ID: <199910180400.AAA26911@gevjon.ttsg.com>#1/1 Weekly Status on 10/18/99 -=- www.KOTH.org is now hosting a '94 No Pspace Hill. -=- View the stats of all the Hills at: www.KOTH.org/standings.html -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG Standard KotH CoreWar Hill : Last battle concluded at : Thu Oct 14 05:04:41 EDT 1999 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 35/ 20/ 44 Freight Train David Moore 150 61 2 43/ 42/ 15 Blur '88 Anton Marsden 144 98 3 34/ 24/ 42 sIMPly.Red v0.95 Leonardo Humberto 144 18 4 37/ 32/ 31 Frog Sticker P.Kline 143 10 5 42/ 42/ 15 Foggy Swamp Beppe Bezzi 142 57 6 33/ 23/ 44 Guardian Ian Oversby 142 60 7 40/ 40/ 20 Stasis David Moore 141 168 8 40/ 40/ 20 Beholder's Eye V1.7 W. Mintardjo 141 336 9 43/ 45/ 12 Blurstone '88 M. J. Pihlaja 140 55 10 39/ 38/ 24 PacMan David Moore 140 90 11 38/ 36/ 26 Stillborn Bomber v0.2 mjp 140 1 12 39/ 38/ 23 Tangle Trap David Moore 140 134 13 42/ 45/ 14 Iron Gate Wayne Sheppard 139 386 14 26/ 17/ 57 EV Paper John K Wilkinson 135 74 15 28/ 24/ 48 Shish-Ka-Bob Ben Ford 133 16 16 36/ 41/ 24 Kitchen Sink Robert Macrae 131 59 17 34/ 39/ 26 Leapfrog David Moore 130 89 18 25/ 21/ 54 Test I Ian Oversby 129 117 19 25/ 23/ 52 Evoltmp 88 John K W 127 111 20 25/ 24/ 51 TESTE Leonardo Humberto 126 19 21 4/ 56/ 40 chewy stush 52 0 From: jkw@austin.rr.com Subject: Re: unbeatable warrior Date: 1999/10/18 Message-ID: <4.1.19991018013107.00972cf0@pop-server>#1/1 At 11:30 AM 10/17/99 -0400, you wrote: >On Sat, 16 Oct 1999, Robert Macrae wrote: > >> For pure pattern scanners and bombers, the retro-warrior approach >> works. > >Out of curiousity, I tried to make an anti-carbonite with the >same form as carbonite. (I guess we'd all welcome such a warrior >:) ). It turns out that it can't be done. i.e. > >i.e. spl 0 >mv mov step , 1+step*time >tgt add.ab {0,}0 > jmp -2 > >with step = -197. > >The reason is that with step 197, to hit the target line last, >you first hit mv+(16, 7, 5, 3) and finally tgt = mv+1 (these >represent the different bombing runs[1] locally). But for >step = -197, the sequence before hitting tgt is mv+(..., 120, 43, >9, 2), which means you _have_to_ hit the jmp line before hitting >tgt. Yes I see how that would be... I posted a warrior a while back which would bomb the core with sequentially increasing/decreasing numbers, mod 1, as a possible IWT submission. There is no way to create a retro warrior for it either. As I mentioned in my original post their were a limited number of steps that could be used... and I dont think any of them had a negative counterpart that would actually work. Is it possible there could be an IWT unbeatable warrior? :) From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - ICWS Experimental 94 10/18/99 Date: 1999/10/18 Message-ID: <199910180400.AAA26922@gevjon.ttsg.com>#1/1 Weekly Status on 10/18/99 -=- www.KOTH.org is now hosting a '94 No Pspace Hill. -=- View the stats of all the Hills at: www.KOTH.org/standings.html -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG ICWS Experimental 94 CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Wed Oct 13 22:06:35 EDT 1999 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 54/ 32/ 15 Black Moods Ian Oversby 176 7 2 48/ 29/ 23 Controlled Aggression Ian Oversby 166 11 3 38/ 16/ 46 Venom v0.2b Christian Schmidt 160 33 4 32/ 6/ 62 Evol Cap 4 X John Wilkinson 159 80 5 25/ 3/ 73 Evolve X v4.0 John Wilkinson 146 28 6 39/ 36/ 24 Dr. Gate X Franz 142 51 7 37/ 32/ 31 Draken Fire X Ben Ford 141 2 8 39/ 38/ 24 Stepping Stone 94x Kurt Franke 140 66 9 29/ 20/ 51 Rosebud Beppe 137 59 10 37/ 36/ 27 BigBoy Robert Macrae 137 105 11 38/ 42/ 20 Tsunami v0.3 X Ian Oversby 134 5 12 31/ 30/ 39 Self-Modifying Code X Ben Ford 133 1 13 40/ 48/ 12 S.E.T.I. 4-X JKW 132 81 14 33/ 35/ 32 Lithium X 8 John K Wilkinson 132 71 15 37/ 44/ 19 Pagan John K W 131 65 16 37/ 45/ 18 Memories Beppe Bezzi 129 87 17 37/ 48/ 14 WingShot Ben Ford 126 3 18 21/ 16/ 63 Sphere v0.2 Christian Schmidt 126 22 19 37/ 49/ 15 BiShot Christian Schmidt 124 19 20 21/ 19/ 60 Purple v0.1 Christian Schmidt 123 32 21 0/ 74/ 26 flood stush 27 0 From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - 94 No Pspace 10/18/99 Date: 1999/10/18 Message-ID: <199910180400.AAA26928@gevjon.ttsg.com>#1/1 Weekly Status on 10/18/99 -=- www.KOTH.org is now hosting a '94 No Pspace Hill. -=- View the stats of all the Hills at: www.KOTH.org/standings.html -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG 94 No Pspace CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Sun Oct 17 11:16:00 EDT 1999 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 46/ 40/ 14 Stalker P.Kline 151 28 2 44/ 41/ 15 Jinx Christian Schmidt 148 6 3 32/ 20/ 48 nPaper II Paul-V Khuong 144 43 4 31/ 21/ 48 EvoP 3 Ken Espiritu 142 39 5 42/ 43/ 15 Boys are Back in Town 1.1 Philip Kendall 141 305 6 42/ 44/ 13 Win! David Moore 141 278 7 33/ 25/ 42 Icen Ben Ford 140 137 8 42/ 43/ 15 Qshot Christian Schmidt 140 49 9 41/ 42/ 17 Zooom... John Metcalf 139 179 10 31/ 27/ 42 Omnibus John Metcalf 136 52 11 32/ 28/ 41 Ant Factory Christian Schmidt 136 138 12 28/ 22/ 49 Jade Ben Ford 135 112 13 33/ 33/ 34 Blacken Ian Oversby 134 290 14 24/ 14/ 63 Cinammon John Metcalf 133 8 15 28/ 22/ 50 Jaguar Christian Schmidt 133 30 16 39/ 45/ 16 goonie David Moore 133 105 17 26/ 20/ 55 Safety in Numbers Ken Espiritu 131 17 18 34/ 38/ 28 PC WFB 129 129 19 30/ 32/ 38 The Pendragon Christian Schmidt 128 116 20 30/ 33/ 37 Proximate Ken Espiritu 127 1 21 27/ 63/ 10 tt Anonymous 90 2 From: jkw@austin.rr.com Subject: Re: unbeatable warrior Date: 1999/10/18 Message-ID: <4.1.19991017090308.00972b70@pop-server>#1/1 >> >Progress; for any warrior which does not use MOV.i, there is a >warrior >> >it cannot beat. ... >I agree. The area of draws is tough to cover, so my formulation of a >similar and simpler question excludes it, in the hope that we might a) >manage to answer my simpler question, and b) learn enough in the >process to answer the original one. > >Robert Is that actually progress, though? I mean, if we assume all the modifiers constitute different behaviors, there'd be 6272000000^100, or 5.50e+979 distinct warriors. Warriors that contain not 'mov.i' anywhere in them: 6208000000^100, or 1.97e+979 Subtracting... Warriors that contain at least one 'mov.i' in them: 3.53e+979 Woop dee doo. From 5.50e+979 down to a mere 3.53e+979... And I'm still not convinced this simplification is justified :) -jkw From: Goncalves Subject: Newbie question Date: 1999/10/19 Message-ID: <380CEB8F.B14A1C6A@rnl.ist.utl.pt>#1/1 Hi, I'm a newbie to Core War. In fact I've just read some faqs and infos on it. It sounds a lot interesting. But, for a start, a question (in fact LOT MORE) appeared to me... Say you have an imp as a warrior (the stupid runner) against a dwarf (the one who bombs memory addresses). While the imp is running through the core the dwarf bombs it. How can any of them kill one??? I just can't abstract the idea...Please remember--->NEWBIE :) Here's how I see it... I see imp gaining terrain linearly (address by address) while the dwarf gains it randomly(not exactly...). Running each others' processes, 1 by 1, the simulator never ends. MY PROBLEM IS: I JUST SEE TIES IN THIS GAME. Please HELP me!!! From: "Robert Macrae" Subject: Re: unbeatable warrior Date: 1999/10/19 Message-ID: <7uiogh$6jq$1@lure.pipex.net>#1/1 > >> >Progress; for any warrior which does not use MOV.i, there is a > >warrior > >> >it cannot beat. ... > Is that actually progress, though? I mean, if we assume all the > modifiers constitute different behaviors, there'd be > 6272000000^100, or 5.50e+979 distinct warriors. > > Warriors that contain not 'mov.i' anywhere in them: > 6208000000^100, or 1.97e+979 I'm sorry... you mean eliminating 1.97e+979 candidates is not progress? Sir, you set high standards. Robert From: M Joonas Pihlaja Subject: Re: unbeatable warrior Date: 1999/10/19 Message-ID: #1/1 On Tue, 19 Oct 1999, Bjoern wrote: > On 18 Oct 1999 13:21:04 -0400, jkw@austin.rr.com wrote: > > >At 11:30 AM 10/17/99 -0400, you wrote: > >>9, 2), which means you _have_to_ hit the jmp line before hitting > >>tgt. Erhm, if you actually run the warrior with step = -197, you see that the spl line gets hit first. Right, that makes for two posts and two corrections in a row. I'll just get my coat, the one with the purple and green stripes, thanks. > Too lazy to consider your carbonite example, just asking if you are > sure that it can't be done... Only sure for those candidates with the same form as carbonite, and no djn stream, with step = -197. Other forms probably could do the trick. Joonas From: Ben Ford Subject: Re: unbeatable warrior Date: 1999/10/19 Message-ID: <7uht81$alq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>#1/1 Pattel's Virus is just lucky there is a bunch of scanners on the hill. I ran the test myself and it got like 70-80% against the scanners and had less than stellar scores against everything else. If anyone wants to get on the hill, just make a decent p-spacer with a nice stone to destroy the scanners. This steategy only works for as long as it takes for the flood of p-spacers to knock all the scanners off of course. -Ben In article <199910181902.MAA14295@andromeda.ociw.edu>, birk@andromeda.ociw.edu wrote: > > The answer depends on what we mean by best. One definition could be that > > the best warrior has the best score after playing with all possible > > opponents. I think this warrior would not make it onto any hill either. > > > >Nandor. > > I just test-submitted 'Pattel's Virus' (#1 on OPEN-Koenigstuhl == best > warrior written so far) and it would have made the Pizza-94 hill as #3: > > # %W / %L / %T Name Author Score Age > 1 38.7/ 35.4/ 25.9 Origami Harquebus mjp 142.1 2 > 2 38.4/ 35.5/ 26.2 Self-Modifying Code Ben Ford 141.2 54 > 3 39.8/ 39.6/ 20.6 Pattel's Virus Ben Ford 139.9 1 > 4 35.5/ 31.4/ 33.0 Vilex Ken Espiritu 139.6 6 > 5 32.0/ 26.0/ 42.0 Stonewashed Christian Schmidt 138.0 48 > 6 37.6/ 37.2/ 25.2 Recycled Bits David Moore 137.9 108 > 7 29.7/ 23.8/ 46.5 Exor Ken Espiritu 135.5 11 > 8 29.1/ 23.3/ 47.6 EvoP 3 Ken Espiritu 134.9 11 > 9 37.8/ 41.6/ 20.6 Snowman John Metcalf 134.0 52 > 10 28.8/ 24.1/ 47.1 Jade Ben Ford 133.5 31 > 11 25.9/ 18.6/ 55.5 Return of the Fugitive David Moore 133.2 35 > 12 25.4/ 18.0/ 56.6 Cinammon John Metcalf 132.7 4 > 13 28.0/ 24.1/ 47.9 Jaguar Christian Schmidt 131.9 5 > 14 35.6/ 39.6/ 24.9 Stranger John Metcalf 131.6 65 > 15 25.7/ 19.9/ 54.4 Safety in Numbers Ken Espiritu 131.4 5 > 16 33.6/ 36.2/ 30.2 Am I alive? Christian Schmidt 131.0 7 > 17 36.9/ 43.1/ 20.1 SnooPy P.Kline 130.6 1 > 18 36.8/ 43.0/ 20.2 myBlur2 Paulsson 130.6 19 > 19 35.1/ 39.7/ 25.2 death by redcode Simon Wainwright 130.5 87 > 20 24.4/ 18.7/ 56.9 No More Innocuous Leonardo H. Liporati 130.0 40 > 21 37.8/ 45.7/ 16.5 Ignominy Ian Sutton 129.8 8 > 22 31.4/ 33.1/ 35.4 The Stormbringer Christian Schmidt 129.7 108 > 23 28.2/ 27.1/ 44.7 nPaper II Paul-V Khuong 129.2 11 > 24 37.4/ 45.7/ 16.9 Stalker P.Kline 129.1 8 > 25 36.8/ 45.1/ 18.1 Jinx Christian Schmidt 128.5 2 > > Note W%=39.8! Using a different scoring algorithm (e.g. W=1,L=-1,T=0) > would move it further down the hill; but it would have made the hill > anyway. > > Christoph > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From: Paul Kline Subject: Re: unbeatable warrior Date: 1999/10/20 Message-ID: <7ule2n$8n5@ng1.icn.state.ia.us>#1/1 jkw wrote: >Hehe... what's the retrowarrior for an imp spiral? :) A spiral clear? A spiral of size N*X where X is the size of your spiral will *sometimes* kill it. -------- Fact: There are no random behaviors Assertion: I can spl- or dat-bomb faster than you can replicate Posit: Given your source I can write a program that kills you more than half the time. Likely more than 90% of the time. Data Point: We had a tourney round where our warrior fought 10 'whites' of known code. My entry beat all of them at least 90% of the time by quickly finding a known point in the startup code, and bombing all the relevant offsets to get the kill. Caveat: The above eliminates from consideration large programs which can be found very fast, but it might not eliminate a small program that is also very dangerous. However, we have some confidence that we can write a replicator to kill any small bomber, and a small bomber that can kill any small scanner. Paul Kline pk6811s@acad.drake.edu From: Ilmari Karonen Subject: pMARS permutation patch for IMT #2 Date: 1999/10/20 Message-ID: <7ulba6$a6v$1@tron.sci.fi>#1/1 After receiving comments on the minimal patch I posted here earlier, and finding some minor bugs in it myself, I have created another, more extensive patch. Instead of posting it here, I've put it on the WWW at: http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/corewar/imt2/permutate.diff New features, compared to the original patch, include: * A command line option (-P) to toggle the permutation feature. * Automatically runs all possible rounds if no -r option is given. * More bells and whistles, including documentation for the -P option. * The -F option now hopefully works as it should. * Shouldn't leak memory even if simulator1() is called repeatedly. * Fixed some existing bugs in clparse.c in the process. If the patch is applied to the unmodified pMARS 0.8 distribution, you should be able to compile the patched version just like the original. If you have already customized your makefile before applying the patch, you may need to add the -DPERMUTATE option manually if the patch fails. Note that the clparse.c bug fixes do not depend on this option. Several people have requested patched pMARS binaries, which I am unable to provide myself (except for Linux/i86 if needed). I would therefore like to ask the people who have made the existing binary distibutions to consider compiling and distributing the patched version as well. Of course it would be even nicer to have the patch become part of the next official pMARS release. (It's been a while since the last one..) It should be possible to edit this patch so that it can be applied to custom software based on the pMARS simulator. Only the modifications to sim.c are essential to the patch, although if you remove the command line option code you'll have to set SWITCH_P manually. -- Ilmari Karonen http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/ From: "Ransom Smith" Subject: Re: Newbie question Date: 1999/10/20 Message-ID: #1/1 > 1, the simulator never ends. MY PROBLEM IS: I JUST SEE TIES IN THIS > GAME. Please HELP me!!! It will stop after 80000 executions, but this is the tie you mentioned. While the dwarf has about a 1 in 4 chance ( I think) of hitting the imp, It'll get boring to watch after a while. I think if you use just pMARS instead of pMARSV, you can set it for a larger number of rounds, and watch a few wins stack up for the dwarf. If the imp hits it first, however, there will be one of those ugly ties again. From: "Robert Macrae" Subject: Re: Newbie question Date: 1999/10/20 Message-ID: <7uk8q0$c4c$1@lure.pipex.net>#1/1 > I see imp gaining terrain linearly (address by address) while the dwarf > gains it randomly(not exactly...). The objective is not to gain ground, but to survive and kill; if the dwarf can put a DAT bomb just where the imp is about the execute, it will win because the imp executes the DAT and terminates. > Running each others' processes, 1 by > 1, the simulator never ends. What will usually happen is that the dwarf fails to hit the imp, because the executing part is a very small target, and the imp will over-write the dwarf. Both will then continue to execute MOV 0,1 instructions, leading to a draw. However, other warriors like DClear are very good at killing imps... Alternatively, watch a battle between two dwarves. Robert Macrae From: Paul-V Khuong Subject: Re: Newbie question Date: 1999/10/21 Message-ID: <19991021004831.17429.rocketmail@web123.yahoomail.com>#1/1 Goncalves wrote: > Hi, I'm a newbie to Core War. In fact I've just read > some faqs and infos > on it. It sounds a lot interesting. It sure is! Welcome! (anyones knows why newbies come in rushes??) > But, for a start, a question (in fact LOT MORE) > appeared to me... > Say you have an imp as a warrior (the stupid runner) > against a dwarf > (the one who bombs memory addresses). While the imp > is running through > the core the dwarf bombs it. How can any of them > kill one??? I just > can't abstract the idea...Please remember--->NEWBIE > :) > > Here's how I see it... > I see imp gaining terrain linearly (address by > address) while the dwarf > gains it randomly(not exactly...). Running each > others' processes, 1 by > 1, the simulator never ends. MY PROBLEM IS: I JUST > SEE TIES IN THIS > GAME. Please HELP me!!! OK... You see, the imp moves in a 2 time cycle: 1st, copy self to next cell, and then, on the next cycle, the cell that is executed is the one where the mov 0,1 has been copied... And, once the imp has reached the dwarf, it's a tie... So, to win, the dwarf has to hit the copied instruction before it gets executed...(not an easy task, let me tell you 8) And, this is why, so far, you haven't seen any game where the dwarf has won(probabilities kindof very small 8) ===== Vive le Qu�bec libre... d� souverainistes!!! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From: "Screamer" Subject: Re: pMARS permutation patch for IMT #2 Date: 1999/10/21 Message-ID: <001001bf1bec$e1251980$6000a8c0@screamer>#1/1 [snip] > port. Can anyone volunteer for this job? Maybe a platform independent > graphics library should be used. I know there are a few of these [snip] You could use PTC - absolutely free, supports nearly everything, works on both Unixes and Windows, I think there's an Amiga port too... check www.gaffer.org/ptc Screamer From: "Ransom Smith" Subject: Re: Newbie question Date: 1999/10/21 Message-ID: #1/1 > Here's how I see it... > I see imp gaining terrain linearly (address by address) while the dwarf > gains it randomly(not exactly...). Running each others' processes, 1 by > 1, the simulator never ends. MY PROBLEM IS: I JUST SEE TIES IN THIS > GAME. Please HELP me!!! Would this be After the imp hits the dwarf? Then they will Always tie. Always. But sometimes, if you're watching, you'll find that when the dwarf's bombing run catches up with the imp, they both change positions. This is when the dwarf has won the round, and a new round has started. For something neat, and educational- Set the dwarf's step size (how much it ADDs to the MOV command) to 42. Then, as a training exercise of sorts, explain the new behavior. From: Philip Kendall Subject: Re: pMARS permutation patch for IMT #2 Date: 1999/10/21 Message-ID: #1/1 sieben@imap1.asu.edu writes: > I no longer have a dos C compiler installed on my computer and I am > not sure what the present status of djgpp is. Still being updated -- although I couldn't get pMARS to compile using it, IIRC :-( Phil -- / Philip Kendall (pak21@cam.ac.uk pak21@kendalls.demon.co.uk) \ \ http://www.kendalls.demon.co.uk/pak21/index.html / From: sieben@imap1.asu.edu Subject: Re: pMARS permutation patch for IMT #2 Date: 1999/10/21 Message-ID: <7umg1k$kk4$1@news.asu.edu>#1/1 Am I the only one from the original authors of pMars still reading this group? Please let me know if you are out there. Actually Stefan and I was working on a new release a few years ago but then we got too busy. I hate to say this but the next release should have a native windows port. Can anyone volunteer for this job? Maybe a platform independent graphics library should be used. I know there are a few of these libraries out there. I no longer have a dos C compiler installed on my computer and I am not sure what the present status of djgpp is. Anyone knows? Nandor. Ilmari Karonen (usenet10884@itz.pp.sci.fi) wrote: : After receiving comments on the minimal patch I posted here earlier, and : finding some minor bugs in it myself, I have created another, more : extensive patch. Instead of posting it here, I've put it on the WWW at: : http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/corewar/imt2/permutate.diff : New features, compared to the original patch, include: : * A command line option (-P) to toggle the permutation feature. : * Automatically runs all possible rounds if no -r option is given. : * More bells and whistles, including documentation for the -P option. : * The -F option now hopefully works as it should. : * Shouldn't leak memory even if simulator1() is called repeatedly. : * Fixed some existing bugs in clparse.c in the process. : If the patch is applied to the unmodified pMARS 0.8 distribution, you : should be able to compile the patched version just like the original. : If you have already customized your makefile before applying the patch, : you may need to add the -DPERMUTATE option manually if the patch fails. : Note that the clparse.c bug fixes do not depend on this option. : Several people have requested patched pMARS binaries, which I am unable : to provide myself (except for Linux/i86 if needed). I would therefore : like to ask the people who have made the existing binary distibutions to : consider compiling and distributing the patched version as well. Of : course it would be even nicer to have the patch become part of the next : official pMARS release. (It's been a while since the last one..) : It should be possible to edit this patch so that it can be applied to : custom software based on the pMARS simulator. Only the modifications to : sim.c are essential to the patch, although if you remove the command : line option code you'll have to set SWITCH_P manually. : -- : Ilmari Karonen : http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/ From: Myer R Bremer Subject: tournament Date: 1999/10/22 Message-ID: <3810D416.4A0F@attglobal.net>#1/1 Greetings It's been awhile. I heard some talk of a tournament. Is there a web page out there detailing the rules? I linked around Pizza and Koth, but I didn't see anything. M R Bremer From: "John K. Lewis" Subject: Re: pMARS permutation patch for IMT #2 Date: 1999/10/22 Message-ID: #1/1 Ilmari Karonen wrote: > New features, compared to the original patch, include: > * A command line option (-P) to toggle the permutation feature. > * Automatically runs all possible rounds if no -r option is given. > * More bells and whistles, including documentation for the -P option. > * The -F option now hopefully works as it should. > * Shouldn't leak memory even if simulator1() is called repeatedly. > * Fixed some existing bugs in clparse.c in the process. Should be roll this into the regular version? Pmars 9 anyone? John - From: "John Metcalf" Subject: New Email Address Date: 1999/10/22 Message-ID: <19991022120955.86645.qmail@hotmail.com>#1/1 Greetings... I will be using this Hotmail email address until I can find another shell account. I hope there are plenty of competitors entering the tournament. Regards, John ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: "John K. Lewis" Subject: Re: pMARS permutation patch for IMT #2 Date: 1999/10/23 Message-ID: #1/1 sieben@imap1.asu.edu wrote: > John K. Lewis (jklewis@hal.itd.umich.edu) wrote: > : Ilmari Karonen wrote: > : > New features, compared to the original patch, include: > : > * A command line option (-P) to toggle the permutation feature. > : > * Automatically runs all possible rounds if no -r option is given. > : > * More bells and whistles, including documentation for the -P option. > : > * The -F option now hopefully works as it should. > : > * Shouldn't leak memory even if simulator1() is called repeatedly. > : > * Fixed some existing bugs in clparse.c in the process. > : Should be roll this into the regular version? Pmars 9 anyone? > I don't think a new release is a good idea until there is a windows port. And I'd like a stable Mac port as well. John - From: Peter Gerwinski Subject: GPLed MARS implementation? Date: 1999/10/23 Message-ID: <7us458$cua4@mx2.hrz.uni-essen.de>#1/1 Hello! pMARS is a great program. However there are always little things to fix or to improve. Unfortunately the license does not allow to distribute such modifications. (Is there any special reason why pMARS is no true free (Open-Source) Software?) Does anybody know a MARS implementation with a GPL-style license? Thanks in advance, Peter -- http://home.pages.de/~Peter.Gerwinski/ - G-N-U GmbH: http://www.g-n-u.de Maintainer GNU Pascal - http://home.pages.de/~GNU-Pascal/ - gpc-19990118 GnuPG key fingerprint: 9E7C 0FC4 8A62 5536 1730 A932 9834 65DB 2143 9422 keys: ftp://ftp.gerwinski.de/pub/keys/ - AntiSpam: http://spam.abuse.net From: ">mag<" Subject: Re: the truth about David Matthew Moore Date: 1999/10/23 Message-ID: <38118501.47415EA2@bayarea.net>#1/1 jmoc34@snet.net wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > In article > , > Niclas Fredriksson wrote: > > On Mon, 11 Oct 1999 jmoc34@snet.net wrote: > >> Oh. "Guilty until proven innocent". This is the problem with allowing the general public to judge "at large", and the trend is exactly in this direction. Why else have they started airing court-room settings ? First it was tv wrestling, then trash talk-shows where the audience bashes the visitors, then court-room tv. Now we have live web polls on tv as to whether this person or that person is considered "innocent" by the public (see recent airings I believe of Night-Line or some such shows, can't remember specifically). It is due time for an internet policitcal watchdog group to form, on the order of what some small folks are doing to watch politicians and judges. Firestarters should be banned from the internet via central mechanisms. That would calm down all of the loose pistols who get on and fire their mouths off hiding behind a screen. Internet 2 should help since there will be no reason then that every single person should be able to have their own complete set of IP addresses, and if done correctly, will be allowed only that set for their entire lives, like a social security number, so that what they say and do will be accountable. I'm not for "big brother" but I am for accountability of slanderers. Too many people already go to jail or get arrested and harrassed just because some dweeb, bitch or bimbo fires off their slanted tongues. Time to cut those tongues off at the roots, I say ! :) Of course, the alternative is the "old west" approach, which seems to be the Danish solution... "get even by hacking them to death". I'm all for that if common sense doesn't prevail, as well :) my 2 cents Mike rasmas@bayarea.net From: sieben@imap1.asu.edu Subject: Re: pMARS permutation patch for IMT #2 Date: 1999/10/23 Message-ID: <7urg39$pu4$1@news.asu.edu>#1/1 John K. Lewis (jklewis@hal.itd.umich.edu) wrote: : Ilmari Karonen wrote: : > New features, compared to the original patch, include: : > * A command line option (-P) to toggle the permutation feature. : > * Automatically runs all possible rounds if no -r option is given. : > * More bells and whistles, including documentation for the -P option. : > * The -F option now hopefully works as it should. : > * Shouldn't leak memory even if simulator1() is called repeatedly. : > * Fixed some existing bugs in clparse.c in the process. : Should be roll this into the regular version? Pmars 9 anyone? I don't think a new release is a good idea until there is a windows port. Nandor. From: "Robert Macrae" Subject: Re: Newbie (my warrior) Date: 1999/10/24 Message-ID: <7uvvjd$ddg$1@lure.pipex.net>#1/1 > Could somebody take a look at my warrior > (which I know really sucks but hey) and tell me what is wrong with it? It is pretty complex. I would try getting the individual parts to work first before you combine them. > start jmp bootstrap ;Marks beginning of This is redundant; why not start at bootstrap? > bootstrap spl replicator ;Launch the replicator > spl bomber ;Launch the bomber > spl rev_bomber ;Launch the reverse > bomber > spl wall ;Launch the defensive > wall > dat #0 ;end bootstrap You could use JMP wall in place of SPL, and eliminate the DAT 0. However, the order of warriors looks strange. Unless your bombers split very fast, the replicator will grab most of hte processes and make the rest inneffective? This might be improved if the replicator was split off last, giving the others a few extra cycles to get going. > bomber mov.i @bombdat, @btarget ;Bomb the target with a > DAT > add bombinc, btarget ;Increment target > jmp bomber ;Bomb next I don't think this is doing what you intend at all -- test it in cdb. Because btarget is a number -- 5000 -- it acts as a relative address from the instruction in which it appears. So, you move the bomb to @bomber+5000, and add bombinc to bomber+1+5000. Try something like bomber mov.i bombdat, @btarget add bombinc, btarget btarget jmp bomber for comparison; now btarget is a reference and should work as you intend. However, there are lots of ways to bomb; take a look at Rosebud, Tornado, Torch or many others. Most bombers include an SPL at the start so that they gain processes as time goes on, and this is vital if they have to work with a replicator. > wall spl bwall1 ;Start the first back ... I am not really sure about the rest of the code, but it looks rather long and vulnerable to attack. I would have a go at developing your bomber, because in some ways they are the simplext kind of warriors to understand. Replicators are more complex. Nowadays most replicators use the Silk engine; there are many examples such as ccpaper or timescape. The advantage of this mechanism is that it splits so quickly that it is hard to stun. When the bomber is working, I think you will find it much easier to get the rest running. Regards, Robert Macrae From: p1@blinker.net (Bjoern) Subject: Linux distributions and pMars Date: 1999/10/24 Message-ID: <3811b2b0.899476@NEWS.FREE4ALL.CO.UK>#1/1 Just curious: has pMARS shipped with the latest Linux distributions (SuSE, Redhat, Mandrake)? I think I remember Planar saying that he send a rpm to redhat? It could be a good way to attract new players... Bjoern -- always look on the bright side of death (e.glavas) From: Paul Mumby Subject: Newbie (my warrior) continued... Date: 1999/10/24 Message-ID: <38136BCD.22EE@crosswinds.net>#1/1 Please note, the posting for some reason got a little screwed... the word wrap is messed up or something... :) sorry... From: Paul Mumby Subject: Newbie (my warrior) Date: 1999/10/24 Message-ID: <38136B5D.3EF5@crosswinds.net> Allrighty :) I used to play corewar a long time ago, and am currently used to the 88 standards... I made a new attempt with Pmars, and cannot even seem to get my code to work at all... I am using alot of the new additions that I am not familiar with. Could somebody take a look at my warrior (which I know really sucks but hey) and tell me what is wrong with it? I am just trying to use this warrior as a learning experience to learn some new things... Thanks alot. Warrior begins here: ;redcode-94x verbose ;name Glasswalker ;author Paul Mumby ;strategy Unknown as of yet... ;assert CORESIZE >= 10000 && MAXLENGTH >= 100 start jmp bootstrap ;Marks beginning of program bootstrap spl replicator ;Launch the replicator spl bomber ;Launch the bomber spl rev_bomber ;Launch the reverse bomber spl wall ;Launch the defensive wall dat #0 ;end bootstrap bomber mov.i @bombdat, @btarget ;Bomb the target with a DAT add bombinc, btarget ;Increment target jmp bomber ;Bomb next rev_bomber mov.i @bombdat, @rbtarget ;Bomb the target with a DAT add revbinc, rbtarget ;Increment target jmp rev_bomber ;Bomb next wall spl bwall1 ;Start the first back wall spl bwall2 ;Start the second back wall spl fwall1 ;Start the first front wall spl fwall2 ;Start the second front wall dat #0 bwall1 mov.i @bombdat, @bwtarget1 ;Fire a bomb into the wall add #4, bwtarget1 ;Add 4 to target (for stagger) add #1, bwcnt1 ;Increment counter cmp bwcnt1, 3 ;Is this 3rd shot? jmp bwallreset1 ;Yes? then reset wall jmp bwall1 ;No? then continue bwallreset1 mov #start-16, bwtarget1 ;Reset wall start target mov #0, bwcnt1 ;Reset counter jmp bwall1 ;Continue bwall2 mov.i @bombdat, @bwtarget2 ;This wall same as above, but sub #4, bwtarget2 ;it is staggered, and in add #1, bwcnt2 ;the opposite direction. cmp bwcnt2, 3 ; jmp bwallreset2 ; jmp bwall2 ; bwallreset2 mov #start-12, bwtarget2 ; mov #0, bwcnt2 ; jmp bwall2 ; fwall1 mov.i @bombdat, @fwtarget1 ;Same as first, but on other sub #4, fwtarget1 ;end of program add #1, fwcnt1 ; cmp fwcnt1, 3 ; jmp fwallreset1 ; jmp fwall1 ; fwallreset1 mov #endcode+16, fwtarget1 ; mov #0, fwcnt1 ; jmp fwall1 ; fwall2 mov.i @bombdat, @fwtarget2 ;Same as second but on other add #4, fwtarget2 ;end of program add #1, fwcnt2 ; cmp fwcnt2, 3 ; jmp fwallreset2 ; jmp fwall2 ; fwallreset2 mov #endcode+12, fwtarget2 ; mov #0, fwcnt2 ; jmp fwall2 ; replicator mov endcode, target ; add toffset, target ;Find target mov endcode, length ; sub start, length ;Find Length of program mov start, source ;Find source location copy mov.i @source, @target ;Copy 1 opcode add #1, source ;Increment source add #1, target ;Increment Target cmp source, endcode ;Are we done? jmp spawn ;Yes? then spawn it jmp copy ;No? then continue spawn spl target-length ;Spawn new daughter add #1000, toffset ;Increment to next target jmp replicator ;Restart the replicator source equ 0 target equ 0 length equ 0 toffset equ 1000 bombinc equ 100 revbinc equ 250 btarget equ 5000 rbtarget equ -5000 bwtarget1 equ start-16 bwcnt1 equ 0 bwtarget2 equ start-12 bwcnt2 equ 0 fwtarget1 equ endcode+16 fwcnt1 equ 0 fwtarget2 equ endcode+12 fwcnt2 equ 0 bombdat dat 0 endcode end start ;Marks end of code From: Andrew Subject: Re: Linux distributions and pMars Date: 1999/10/25 Message-ID: <381495C5.7B75FFAF@home.com>#1/1 I'm a codewar newbie, I have no prior coding background (maybe apple basci 10 print "hi") I stumbled upon pMars in the latest issue of Linux Journal. Since I've been thinking about getting into programming (and the coolest thing I've ever seen were assembly demos) I've been thinking about using pMars as a training-tool type thing to see how much patience I really have to learn something like that. Someday (hopefully soon), when I figure out why my networking isn't working on my linux box I'' download pMars, compile it, throw afew test programs on there and see what happens. No real point to this post.. except to mention that The linux Journal had a little article on pMars with a quick explanation of what "Core War(s)" was. Andrew Bjoern wrote: > > On 25 Oct 1999 09:42:33 +0100, Philip Kendall wrote: > > >p1@blinker.net (Bjoern) writes: > > > >> Just curious: has pMARS shipped with the latest Linux distributions > >> (SuSE, Redhat, Mandrake)? I think I remember Planar saying that he > >> send a rpm to redhat? > > > >It's on contrib.redhat, but not on the main CD. > > What is contrib.redhat, does it come automatically if you buy Redhat, > or is it an add-on CD? > > I just recall the setup program from SuSE, where you could chode > packets from different categories. If pMars would have popped up in > the games category, it would have been really neat. > > I think most people stumble upon Corewar just by accident browsing the > available newsgroups (??), the likelyhood to stumble across it in the > games category of a Linux distribution would be much higher. Plus, to > speak in marketing terms, the target audience fits well :-) > > Another idea: how about founding some kind of Webring, ie for > programming games? Or maybe there is already an artificial life > webring that people with pages about Corewar could join? > > Bjoern > > -- > > always look on the bright side of death > (e.glavas) From: Thomas Stroesslin Subject: Re: genetic algorithmus Date: 1999/10/25 Message-ID: #1/1 hi, i am just about to start such a project. contact me if you're interested. --------------------------------------- Thomas Stroesslin E-Mail: mailto:tmstroes@ee.ethz.ch ICQ#: 31950234 On Thu, 15 Apr 1999, Dirk Stander wrote: > Sal=FC, > Hat irgendjemand schonmal eine Corewarshell geschrieben, > die den Code der warrier evolutiv verbessert? >=20 > Has anybody experience writing a corwar shell, which improves its > warriers evolutiv? >=20 > TIA >=20 From: Richard Rognlie Subject: C++Robots Standings -- 1999.10.25 08:56 EDT Date: 1999/10/25 Message-ID: <381453FE.9832099E@gamerz.net>#1/1 For C++Robots information, visit http://www.gamerz.net/c++robots, or send a message with 'help' (sans quotes) as the SUBJECT to c++robots@gamerz.net Program Name Score W / L / T Age Author ================ ===== =========== === ===================================== 1 thebully 663 221/ 29/ 0 152 bartlow@scpglobal.com (Brian Bartlow) 2 wilma 633 211/ 39/ 0 258 hamilton@parlous.mlnet.com (Michael H 2 tommy 633 211/ 39/ 0 247 zcewj@cnfd.pgh.wec.com (Elliot W. Jac 4 polarbear 618 206/ 44/ 0 110 flandar@yahoo.com (Aaron Judd) 5 bigtarget8 603 201/ 49/ 0 122 mevail@science.nnc.edu (Mason E Vail) 6 xtraper 602 199/ 46/ 5 259 3r5k1n3@rivnet.net (Michael John Ersk 7 simpletest 573 191/ 59/ 0 170 niklas.wendel@swipnet.se (Niklas Wend 8 crbot 543 181/ 69/ 0 70 rosevear.craig.ca@bhp.com.au (Rosevea 9 crbot2 537 179/ 71/ 0 249 rosevear.craig.ca@bhp.com.au (Rosevea 10 ttr3 531 177/ 73/ 0 227 traber@ngi.de (Thomas Traber) 11 hambot1 456 152/ 98/ 0 14 ahamel@real.com (alain hamel) 12 breve 450 150/100/ 0 242 steveg@ccis.adisys.com.au (steveg@cci 13 trex 441 147/103/ 0 523 jerome.dumonteil@capway.com (Jerome D 14 pacarobot 435 145/105/ 0 425 proberts@stnc.com (Paul Roberts) 15 bedtime 429 143/107/ 0 517 btb@micron.net (TheRooster) 16 hiderv13 428 140/102/ 8 266 malcolm@citr.com.au (Malcolm Jones) 17 mariner 426 142/108/ 0 785 zcpjm@cnfd.pgh.wec.com (Paul J. Melko 18 minim 423 141/109/ 0 8 steveg@ccis.adisys.com.au (steveg@cci 19 h21 414 138/112/ 0 376 cgl@infowest.com (Curtis Larsen) 20 z 400 133/116/ 1 271 zcmet@cnfd.pgh.wec.com (Mark E. Tyber 21 radar 399 133/117/ 0 233 radu@rasd.ro (Radu DUMITRU) 22 angus2 397 131/115/ 4 510 andy_grant@adc.com (Andy Grant) 23 orbiter 389 129/119/ 2 331 davidma@premier1.net (davidma@premier 24 ssm4 388 129/120/ 1 722 enpch@bath.ac.uk (C Harrison) 25 quaver 387 129/121/ 0 493 steveg@ccis.adisys.com.au (steveg@cci 26 kiilbot1 372 124/126/ 0 693 bob2@goplay.com (bob2) 26 chaos 372 124/126/ 0 690 agondare@hotmail.com (alex gondarenko 28 ajax 364 121/128/ 1 44 pgodman@uswest.net (pgodman@uswest.ne 29 crotchet 363 121/129/ 0 7 steveg@ccis.adisys.com.au (steveg@cci 30 shooter 357 119/131/ 0 754 itdcjr@mail1.hants.gov.uk (Justin Row 31 moogoobot 348 116/134/ 0 16 smpatel@bsd.prognet.com (Sujal Patel) 32 knownaim00 336 112/138/ 0 607 c.d.wright@solipsys.compulink.co.uk ( 33 wobble 327 109/141/ 0 12 itcstr@hantsnet.hants.gov.uk (ITCSTR) 34 dragon 325 108/141/ 1 254 proberts@stnc.com (Paul Roberts) 35 prio.2 324 108/142/ 0 650 oliver@jowett.manawatu.planet.co.nz ( 36 krom 306 102/148/ 0 390 tdavis@gate.net (Thomas E. Davis) 37 samo_ubistvo 276 92/158/ 0 46 agondare@hotmail.com (alex gondarenko 38 raystonn 272 87/152/ 11 629 svincent@a.crl.com (Samuel Vincent) 39 beast 267 89/161/ 0 113 zimman2000@geocities.com (Zim) 40 firstgreg 262 87/162/ 1 47 gwright@real.com (Greg Wright) 41 wasabi 243 81/169/ 0 51 srobinson@real.com (Sean Robinson) 42 watson-09 240 80/170/ 0 106 watson@ttisdc.toshiba.co.jp (watson@t 43 achilles 237 79/171/ 0 18 pgodman@uswest.net (pgodman@uswest.ne 44 imp 234 78/172/ 0 472 petrey@cumbig.bioc.columbia.edu (Dona 45 stick-0.1 206 68/180/ 2 1 chrisr@stick.myip.org (Chris Richards 46 durrow 189 63/187/ 0 3 dcox@netpliance.net (Dennis Cox) 47 freak 186 62/188/ 0 117 zimman2000@geocities.com (Zim) 48 gayass 171 57/193/ 0 115 jas0n_hazel@hotmail.com (Jason Hazel) 49 dud 166 55/194/ 1 102 eamonnw@tinet.ie (eamonnw@tinet.ie) 50 tracker 156 52/198/ 0 9 rrognlie@gamerz.net (Richard Rognlie) -- / \__ | Richard Rognlie / Sendmail Consultant / Sendmail, Inc. \__/ \ | URL: http://www.gamerz.net/rrognlie/ / \__/ | Give a man a fish, and he'll be hungry tomorrow. Teach a \__/ | man to fish, and he'll be at the river all day drinking beer. From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - 94 No Pspace 10/25/99 Date: 1999/10/25 Message-ID: <199910250400.AAA03541@gevjon.ttsg.com>#1/1 Weekly Status on 10/25/99 -=- www.KOTH.org is now hosting a '94 No Pspace Hill. -=- View the stats of all the Hills at: www.KOTH.org/standings.html -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG 94 No Pspace CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Fri Oct 22 05:37:30 EDT 1999 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 43/ 42/ 15 Stalker P.Kline 144 28 2 32/ 20/ 48 nPaper II Paul-V Khuong 143 43 3 43/ 42/ 15 Jinx Christian Schmidt 143 6 4 31/ 21/ 48 EvoP 3 Ken Espiritu 142 39 5 41/ 43/ 16 Boys are Back in Town 1.1 Philip Kendall 138 305 6 31/ 26/ 43 Omnibus John Metcalf 136 52 7 34/ 31/ 35 Blacken Ian Oversby 136 290 8 31/ 27/ 42 Icen Ben Ford 135 137 9 24/ 14/ 62 Cinammon John Metcalf 135 8 10 28/ 21/ 51 Jade Ben Ford 135 112 11 40/ 46/ 14 Win! David Moore 134 278 12 39/ 44/ 17 Zooom... John Metcalf 134 179 13 39/ 43/ 18 goonie David Moore 134 105 14 31/ 29/ 41 Ant Factory Christian Schmidt 133 138 15 26/ 19/ 55 Safety in Numbers Ken Espiritu 132 17 16 27/ 21/ 52 Jaguar Christian Schmidt 132 30 17 38/ 45/ 16 Qshot Christian Schmidt 131 49 18 33/ 38/ 29 PC WFB 128 129 19 30/ 31/ 39 Proximate Ken Espiritu 128 1 20 29/ 32/ 38 The Pendragon Christian Schmidt 127 116 21 31/ 45/ 24 Weak Equilibrium Leonardo H. Liporati 117 0 From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - MultiWarrior 94 10/25/99 Date: 1999/10/25 Message-ID: <199910250400.AAA03528@gevjon.ttsg.com>#1/1 Weekly Status on 10/25/99 -=- www.KOTH.org is now hosting a '94 No Pspace Hill. -=- View the stats of all the Hills at: www.KOTH.org/standings.html -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG Multiwarrior 94 CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Wed Oct 20 07:29:03 EDT 1999 # Name Author Score Age 1 D-clearM Ken Espiritu 38 20 2 FireStarter Simon Duff 31 7 3 QuiVa John Metcalf 30 113 4 fclear Brian Haskin 28 4 5 Her Majesty P.Kline 24 39 6 BiShot v1.0 Christian Schmidt 23 88 7 Vagrant 0.3 Simon Duff 22 12 8 R-clear Ken Espiritu 16 1 9 La Clear v2 Brian Haskin 14 2 10 Silly Lil' Stone Simon Duff 12 8 11 Strategy Test Leonardo H. Liporati 0 0 From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - ICWS Experimental 94 10/25/99 Date: 1999/10/25 Message-ID: <199910250400.AAA03534@gevjon.ttsg.com>#1/1 Weekly Status on 10/25/99 -=- www.KOTH.org is now hosting a '94 No Pspace Hill. -=- View the stats of all the Hills at: www.KOTH.org/standings.html -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG ICWS Experimental 94 CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Wed Oct 13 22:06:35 EDT 1999 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 54/ 32/ 15 Black Moods Ian Oversby 176 7 2 48/ 29/ 23 Controlled Aggression Ian Oversby 166 11 3 38/ 16/ 46 Venom v0.2b Christian Schmidt 160 33 4 32/ 6/ 62 Evol Cap 4 X John Wilkinson 159 80 5 25/ 3/ 73 Evolve X v4.0 John Wilkinson 146 28 6 39/ 36/ 24 Dr. Gate X Franz 142 51 7 37/ 32/ 31 Draken Fire X Ben Ford 141 2 8 39/ 38/ 24 Stepping Stone 94x Kurt Franke 140 66 9 29/ 20/ 51 Rosebud Beppe 137 59 10 37/ 36/ 27 BigBoy Robert Macrae 137 105 11 38/ 42/ 20 Tsunami v0.3 X Ian Oversby 134 5 12 31/ 30/ 39 Self-Modifying Code X Ben Ford 133 1 13 40/ 48/ 12 S.E.T.I. 4-X JKW 132 81 14 33/ 35/ 32 Lithium X 8 John K Wilkinson 132 71 15 37/ 44/ 19 Pagan John K W 131 65 16 37/ 45/ 18 Memories Beppe Bezzi 129 87 17 37/ 48/ 14 WingShot Ben Ford 126 3 18 21/ 16/ 63 Sphere v0.2 Christian Schmidt 126 22 19 37/ 49/ 15 BiShot Christian Schmidt 124 19 20 21/ 19/ 60 Purple v0.1 Christian Schmidt 123 32 21 0/ 74/ 26 flood stush 27 0 From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - Standard 10/25/99 Date: 1999/10/25 Message-ID: <199910250400.AAA03524@gevjon.ttsg.com>#1/1 Weekly Status on 10/25/99 -=- www.KOTH.org is now hosting a '94 No Pspace Hill. -=- View the stats of all the Hills at: www.KOTH.org/standings.html -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG Standard KotH CoreWar Hill : Last battle concluded at : Thu Oct 14 05:04:41 EDT 1999 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 35/ 20/ 44 Freight Train David Moore 150 61 2 43/ 42/ 15 Blur '88 Anton Marsden 144 98 3 34/ 24/ 42 sIMPly.Red v0.95 Leonardo Humberto 144 18 4 37/ 32/ 31 Frog Sticker P.Kline 143 10 5 42/ 42/ 15 Foggy Swamp Beppe Bezzi 142 57 6 33/ 23/ 44 Guardian Ian Oversby 142 60 7 40/ 40/ 20 Stasis David Moore 141 168 8 40/ 40/ 20 Beholder's Eye V1.7 W. Mintardjo 141 336 9 43/ 45/ 12 Blurstone '88 M. J. Pihlaja 140 55 10 39/ 38/ 24 PacMan David Moore 140 90 11 38/ 36/ 26 Stillborn Bomber v0.2 mjp 140 1 12 39/ 38/ 23 Tangle Trap David Moore 140 134 13 42/ 45/ 14 Iron Gate Wayne Sheppard 139 386 14 26/ 17/ 57 EV Paper John K Wilkinson 135 74 15 28/ 24/ 48 Shish-Ka-Bob Ben Ford 133 16 16 36/ 41/ 24 Kitchen Sink Robert Macrae 131 59 17 34/ 39/ 26 Leapfrog David Moore 130 89 18 25/ 21/ 54 Test I Ian Oversby 129 117 19 25/ 23/ 52 Evoltmp 88 John K W 127 111 20 25/ 24/ 51 TESTE Leonardo Humberto 126 19 21 4/ 56/ 40 chewy stush 52 0 From: p1@blinker.net (Bjoern) Subject: Re: Linux distributions and pMars Date: 1999/10/25 Message-ID: <38143851.426149@NEWS.FREE4ALL.CO.UK>#1/1 On 25 Oct 1999 09:42:33 +0100, Philip Kendall wrote: >p1@blinker.net (Bjoern) writes: > >> Just curious: has pMARS shipped with the latest Linux distributions >> (SuSE, Redhat, Mandrake)? I think I remember Planar saying that he >> send a rpm to redhat? > >It's on contrib.redhat, but not on the main CD. What is contrib.redhat, does it come automatically if you buy Redhat, or is it an add-on CD? I just recall the setup program from SuSE, where you could chode packets from different categories. If pMars would have popped up in the games category, it would have been really neat. I think most people stumble upon Corewar just by accident browsing the available newsgroups (??), the likelyhood to stumble across it in the games category of a Linux distribution would be much higher. Plus, to speak in marketing terms, the target audience fits well :-) Another idea: how about founding some kind of Webring, ie for programming games? Or maybe there is already an artificial life webring that people with pages about Corewar could join? Bjoern -- always look on the bright side of death (e.glavas) From: Philip Kendall Subject: Re: Linux distributions and pMars Date: 1999/10/25 Message-ID: #1/1 p1@blinker.net (Bjoern) writes: > Just curious: has pMARS shipped with the latest Linux distributions > (SuSE, Redhat, Mandrake)? I think I remember Planar saying that he > send a rpm to redhat? It's on contrib.redhat, but not on the main CD. Phil -- / Philip Kendall (pak21@cam.ac.uk pak21@kendalls.demon.co.uk) \ \ http://www.kendalls.demon.co.uk/pak21/index.html / From: Philip Kendall Subject: Re: GPLed MARS implementation? Date: 1999/10/25 Message-ID: #1/1 Peter Gerwinski writes: > (Is there any special reason why pMARS is no true free (Open-Source) > Software?) To be honest, why should it be? I'll stick up for open source software, but if authors don't want to open source their software, that's their choice to make. Phil -- / Philip Kendall (pak21@cam.ac.uk pak21@kendalls.demon.co.uk) \ \ http://www.kendalls.demon.co.uk/pak21/index.html / From: qute@trustme.dk (Anders Rosendal) Subject: Re: Linux distributions and pMars Date: 1999/10/26 Message-ID: #1/1 Hello Bjoern! Monday October 25 1999 11:15, Bjoern wrote to Philip Kendall: > games category of a Linux distribution would be much higher. Plus, to > speak in marketing terms, the target audience fits well :-) Yes :-) > Another idea: how about founding some kind of Webring, ie for > programming games? Or maybe there is already an artificial life > webring that people with pages about Corewar could join? You must find the webring. It's better just to mention corewar once in a while in in other AI-game-places. Maybe banners on other AI-game places? -- V�r opm�rksom p� at jeg ikke er i stand til at l�se/svare p� breve hvis emne starter med "Sv:" "The box said 'Windows 95 or better', so I installed Linux" Make software, not war. From: Paul Mumby Subject: Newbie Wuestion Again :) (correction) Date: 1999/10/26 Message-ID: <381619D7.35C9@crosswinds.net>#1/1 Sorry, I noticed a flaw in my code right after I posted it... the @-9 in silk, should be @-30 but I fixed that and it still didn't work, so I still need help :) just letting you all know :) From: Paul Mumby Subject: Newbie Question (What's wrong with this picture) Date: 1999/10/26 Message-ID: <381617A4.2F5E@crosswinds.net>#1/1 Hello again... I have revised my warrior, and would like to know what is wrong with the code... once again I know that it probably is a really bad warrior, but that is ok... I will fix that later, right now I need to know why it is not working and how to fix it... I think it is simply a number or two being off or something... could somebody help me out here? Also: How do you make an imp gate? what is the theory behind it? and how do you do anti-imp bombs properly? Also: What is a Vamp??? what is the definition of it? :) sorry for asking so many questions :) I am just eager to learn :) thanks! Here is my current warrior: ;redcode-94x verbose ;name Glasswalker V1.0 ;author Paul Mumby ;strategy Silk based Paper, with a dual mode stone (attempted anti-imp) ;assert CORESIZE >= 10000 && MAXLENGTH >= 75 bootstrap spl bomber, 150 ;Boot the bomber spl rbomber,<500 ;Boot the reverse bomber jmp rep, <550 ;Goto the replicator decoy1 for 21 ;A decoy jmp 0, <0 ; rof ; rep spl 1, <600 ;\ spl 1, <650 ; \ spl 1, <700 ; \ spl 1, <850 ; / Create 62 processes spl 1, <900 ; / mov -1, 0 ;/ silk spl.a @-9, 121 ;Silk based Copy mov.i }silk, >silk ;Silk based Copy bomber add #300, btarget ;Add to bomb target mov bomb, @btarget ;BOMBS AWAY! spl bomber, <500 ;Spawn new bomber jmp bomber, <800 ;Restart decoy2 for 20 ;Another decoy jmp 0, <-1 ; rof ; rbomber sub #300, rbtarget ;Subtract from bomb target mov bomb, $rbtarget ;BOMBS AWAY! spl rbomber,<600 ;Spawn a new bomber jmp rbomber,<700 ;Restart bomb dat {-1, {0 ;Bomb Data (attmpted anti-imp) btarget dat #0, #0 ;Target variable. rbtarget dat #0, #0 ;Other Target variable. From: Philip Kendall Subject: Re: Linux distributions and pMars Date: 1999/10/26 Message-ID: #1/1 p1@blinker.net (Bjoern) writes: > On 25 Oct 1999 09:42:33 +0100, Philip Kendall wrote: > > >p1@blinker.net (Bjoern) writes: > > > >> Just curious: has pMARS shipped with the latest Linux distributions > >> (SuSE, Redhat, Mandrake)? I think I remember Planar saying that he > >> send a rpm to redhat? > > > >It's on contrib.redhat, but not on the main CD. > > What is contrib.redhat, does it come automatically if you buy Redhat, > or is it an add-on CD? ftp://contrib.redhat.com/ and mirrors thereof (eg Sunsite, at least in the UK). The stuff on it's not on the main or source code CDs, but I have no idea what comes with the proper boxed sets as I'm a student :-) Phil -- / Philip Kendall (pak21@cam.ac.uk pak21@kendalls.demon.co.uk) \ \ http://www.kendalls.demon.co.uk/pak21/index.html / From: Paul-V Khuong Subject: IMT #2 [was Re: More newbie stuff :)] Date: 1999/10/27 Message-ID: <19991027204846.24913.rocketmail@web110.yahoomail.com>#1/1 Ilmari Karonen wrote: > On Wed, 27 Oct 1999 01:40:49 GMT, Paul Mumby > (nemtech@crosswinds.net) wrote: > : silk spl.a @5, 155 > ;Silk based Copy > : mov.i }silk, >silk > ;Silk based Copy > > This is your problem. You're not copying the first 5 > instructions of > your silk. The A-field really should be @0. someone has used '88/'86 papers here, i'd say 8) (copy pointers were decremented, is i believe what i have) > Ps. There's still four days left before IMT #2 > deadline. Everyone is > invited to participate - details at my web page. > Note that if you've > submitted a warrior and have NOT received a reply, > please mail me. What's everyone submitting??? This is getting into some kind of Prisonners' dilemna, i think... There is the djn stream/ multi stream warriors, and the others: i mean, i have one warrior that uses 2 djn streams, and it kills about anything except one of my other warriors, and itself(100% ties) So, if i think that everyone will submit streams, i'll have a go for my warrior #2... if not, i'll submit my stream based warrior... But then, my message has changed the soup already, most probably: seeing that i have a stream killer, noone will submit stream... and i should then go for my stream warrior... Unless eveyones goes for some clear... (on my benchmark, DClear is 5th...) ===== Vive le Qu�bec libre... d� souverainistes!!! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From: Paul-V Khuong Subject: Re: Newbie needs help Date: 1999/10/27 Message-ID: <19991027205602.26385.rocketmail@web110.yahoomail.com>#1/1 netmantis@netzero.net wrote: > I read about corewar, and decided to try to get into > it. Hi! > I read a few > of the FAQs, and got a few tutorials, but I have run > into a problem > with my first warrior. ALways a good start 8)... And, who didn't have any problem with any of his/(her?? any female, in here??) warrior?? > It is a modified dwarf, but > it only seems to > set up a gate. Can anyone help me with it? Here is > the warrior: > > ;redcode > ;name Dwarven warrior > ;author Net Mantis > org dwarf > dat #0 ;bomb1 > dat #0 ;bomb2 > dwarf mov #-2, #5 ;lunch bomb ahead > mov #-2, #-5 ;lunch bomb behind > add #-2, #1 ;incriment ahead > coordinates > sub #-2, #1 ;decriment behind > coordinates > jmp dwarf > end Ok... i'd first suggest taking a look at the docs for pMars 0.8(that's what you're using, right?) The two first lines are unneeded: all the core is filled with DAT.f $0, $0's. And, you CAN use dat 0,0 in your warriors... (and the core is onedimensional(the display may be misleading 8) For the rest: Do you understand hor immediate arguments work??? in immediate addressing mode, the address the immediate field points to is always itself... so you're basically bombing yourself with yourself.(for each lines, that is)... Get in debugger mode at the start (-e option) and step throught the code... > What am I doing wrong? Please keep in mind the fact > that I have only > been doing this for 2 days, and just made it stop > killing itself. :) Well, killing itself isn't always bad, BTW.. ===== Vive le Qu�bec libre... d� souverainistes!!! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From: p1@blinker.net (Bjoern) Subject: Re: Linux distributions and pMars Date: 1999/10/27 Message-ID: <3816d654.1016604@NEWS.FREE4ALL.CO.UK>#1/1 On 26 Oct 1999 08:53:31, qute@trustme.dk (Anders Rosendal) wrote: [...] >> Another idea: how about founding some kind of Webring, ie for >> programming games? Or maybe there is already an artificial life >> webring that people with pages about Corewar could join? > >You must find the webring. It's better just to mention corewar once in a while >in in other AI-game-places. Maybe banners on other AI-game places? That's the idea of the webring, I guess. Somebody might find another site that belongs to the ring, and if interested, might check out other pages from the ring. I am not sure if it's worth much, but it's free... Banners also would be nice, I don't know if there is a decent link exchange scheme out there (= that gives you fair exchange rates). Bjoern -- always look on the bright side of death (e.glavas) From: Ben Ford Subject: Re: Newbie needs help Date: 1999/10/27 Message-ID: <7v7lb1$eud$1@nnrp1.deja.com>#1/1 In article <7v7d6k$8ja$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, netmantis@netzero.net wrote: > I read about corewar, and decided to try to get into it. I read a few > of the FAQs, and got a few tutorials, but I have run into a problem > with my first warrior. It is a modified dwarf, but it only seems to > set up a gate. Can anyone help me with it? Here is the warrior: > > ;redcode > ;name Dwarven warrior > ;author Net Mantis > org dwarf > dat #0 ;bomb1 > dat #0 ;bomb2 > dwarf mov #-2, #5 ;lunch bomb ahead > mov #-2, #-5 ;lunch bomb behind > add #-2, #1 ;incriment ahead coordinates > sub #-2, #1 ;decriment behind coordinates > jmp dwarf > end > > What am I doing wrong? Please keep in mind the fact that I have only > been doing this for 2 days, and just made it stop killing itself. :) The problem with the code is the #'s making all the addresses immediate. So the mov #-2, #5 for instance, deocdes as moving the value -2 (not the location -2) to #5. Since #5 doesn't mean anything, its treated as moving to itself so the statement accomplishes changing the mov #-2, #5 to mov #-2, #-2. On top of that, the mov-add pairs don't point to the same location. Just fixing those gives this warrior: ;redcode ;name Dwarven warrior ;author Net Mantis org dwarf dat # 0 ;bomb1 dat # 0 ;bomb2 dwarf mov -2, 5 ;lunch bomb ahead mov -2, -5 ;lunch bomb behind add # 5, -2 ;incriment ahead coordinates sub #-5, -2 ;decriment behind coordinates jmp dwarf end It can still use a lot of improvement but now it will at least do what you wanted it to do. -Ben Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From: Ilmari Karonen Subject: Re: More newbie stuff :) Date: 1999/10/27 Message-ID: <7v7964$mib$1@tron.sci.fi>#1/1 On Wed, 27 Oct 1999 01:40:49 GMT, Paul Mumby (nemtech@crosswinds.net) wrote: : again... now it works, however after copying and spawning the first new : program, it just stops copying, and I can't figure out why... could : somebody help with that? [snip] : silk spl.a @5, 155 ;Silk based Copy : mov.i }silk, >silk ;Silk based Copy This is your problem. You're not copying the first 5 instructions of your silk. The A-field really should be @0. At least that's what it seems to be at a glance, assuming that you are indeed trying to do a normal Silk copier. If not, sorry for any confusion.. Ps. There's still four days left before IMT #2 deadline. Everyone is invited to participate - details at my web page. Note that if you've submitted a warrior and have NOT received a reply, please mail me. -- Ilmari Karonen (iltzu@sci.fi) http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/ From: netmantis@netzero.net Subject: Newbie needs help Date: 1999/10/27 Message-ID: <7v7d6k$8ja$1@nnrp1.deja.com>#1/1 I read about corewar, and decided to try to get into it. I read a few of the FAQs, and got a few tutorials, but I have run into a problem with my first warrior. It is a modified dwarf, but it only seems to set up a gate. Can anyone help me with it? Here is the warrior: ;redcode ;name Dwarven warrior ;author Net Mantis org dwarf dat #0 ;bomb1 dat #0 ;bomb2 dwarf mov #-2, #5 ;lunch bomb ahead mov #-2, #-5 ;lunch bomb behind add #-2, #1 ;incriment ahead coordinates sub #-2, #1 ;decriment behind coordinates jmp dwarf end What am I doing wrong? Please keep in mind the fact that I have only been doing this for 2 days, and just made it stop killing itself. :) Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From: Paul Mumby Subject: More newbie stuff :) Date: 1999/10/27 Message-ID: <38165CC6.3E6D@crosswinds.net>#1/1 HEllo again people :) I would like to thank you all for all the help you have given me! you people are great :) hehehe... now I have severely revised my code... so alot more of it works, and it is a bit better, however now I am having trouble with my silk engine again... now it works, however after copying and spawning the first new program, it just stops copying, and I can't figure out why... could somebody help with that? thanks alot :) ;redcode-94x verbose ;password Wolfman ;name Glasswalker V2.0 ;author Paul Mumby ;strategy Curently testing only... expect it to suck :) ;strategy I am going to completely rebuild it later... :) ;strategy Silk based Paper, with included stone (anti-imp) ;strategy and a jmz scan too! ;assert CORESIZE >= 8000 && MAXLENGTH >= 75 start jmp rep decoy1 for 22 ;A decoy jmp 0, <0 ; rof ; rep spl 1, <600 ;\ mov -1, 0 ; \Create 9 procs mov -1, 0 ; / mov -1, 0 ;/ silk spl.a @5, 155 ;Silk based Copy mov.i }silk, >silk ;Silk based Copy add #20, silk ;Increment Target add #21, startpaper ;Increment Target (2) jmp {silk, <700 ;Loop/Reset startpaper jmp 1, 150 ;Paper marker/pointer bootscan spl scan, <750 ;Boot the scanner bomber add #92, btarget ;Add to bomb target mov bomb, @btarget ;BOMBS AWAY! jmp bomber, <800 ;Restart scan add #5, starget ;Increment target jmz scan, @starget ;Scan mov bomb, @starget ;Bomb if found jmp scan, <850 ;loop decoy2 for 21 ;Another decoy jmp 0, <-1 ; rof ; bomb dat <2667, <5334 ;Bomb Data (anti-imp) btarget dat #0, #0 ;Bomb Target variable. starget dat #0, #0 ;Scan Target variable. From: "Robert Macrae" Subject: Re: Newbie Question (What's wrong with this picture) Date: 1999/10/27 Message-ID: <7v5e63$iuc$1@lure.pipex.net>#1/1 > Also: How do you make an imp gate? what is the theory behind it? > and how do you do anti-imp bombs properly? I think this is in one of the FAQs. Take a look at www.koth.org for lots of materials. Basically, you increment or decrement a single location as fast as you can, and when an imp walks into the gate you destroy it. > Also: What is a Vamp??? what is the definition of it? :) Vamps such as :-= throw "JMP pit" instructions, sucking enemy processes into a pit and harnessing them to carry out a core-clear, brainwash the enemy, etc. They are not very effective under '94 rules, because Silk paper split too fast to be caught this way. > ;redcode-94x verbose > ;name Glasswalker V1.0 > ;author Paul Mumby > ;strategy Silk based Paper, with a dual mode stone (attempted anti-imp) > ;assert CORESIZE >= 10000 && MAXLENGTH >= 75 > > bootstrap spl bomber, 150 ;Boot the bomber > spl rbomber,<500 ;Boot the reverse bomber > jmp rep, <550 ;Goto the replicator > > decoy1 for 21 ;A decoy > jmp 0, <0 ; > rof ; > > rep spl 1, <600 ;\ > spl 1, <650 ; \ > spl 1, <700 ; \ > spl 1, <850 ; / Create 62 processes > spl 1, <900 ; / > mov -1, 0 ;/ I can't believe you need this many. 4-9 are usually enough. > silk spl.a @-9, 121 ;Silk based Copy Usually a Silk looks liek SPl @0, 121? Why hte -9? > mov.i }silk, >silk ;Silk based Copy So your 62 processes will copy the entire warrior, and then fall through into a new copy of bomber? This is very innefficient, because the bomber will add 62 times, then move 62 times to the same target, etc. This is 62x as slow as a normal bomber -- not good 8-) From: Paul-V Khuong Subject: Re: More newbie stuff :) Date: 1999/10/28 Message-ID: <19991028234807.9524.rocketmail@web112.yahoomail.com>#1/1 "John K. Lewis" wrote: > Ilmari Karonen wrote: > > > Ps. There's still four days left before IMT #2 > deadline. Everyone is > > invited to participate - details at my web page. > Note that if you've > > submitted a warrior and have NOT received a reply, > please mail me. > > > How many entries so far? Well, you'll have to add me in... I still don't know what i'll submit... Probably some fast trashing stone... ===== Vive le Qu�bec libre... d� souverainistes!!! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From: "John K. Lewis" Subject: Re: More newbie stuff :) Date: 1999/10/28 Message-ID: #1/1 Ilmari Karonen wrote: > Ps. There's still four days left before IMT #2 deadline. Everyone is > invited to participate - details at my web page. Note that if you've > submitted a warrior and have NOT received a reply, please mail me. How many entries so far? From: net_mantis@my-deja.com Subject: Re: Newbie needs help Date: 1999/10/28 Message-ID: <7v9ndj$tic$1@nnrp1.deja.com>#1/1 In article , "Ransom Smith" wrote: > Usually, a dwarf will keep its pointer stored in the bombs, not in the MOV > instructions. This makes it easier to see the bombs in cdb, and helps throw > scanners off your trail. For this result, modify the warrior like so: > > > ;redcode > > ;name Dwarven warrior > > ;author Net Mantis > > org dwarf > > dat #0, 0 > > dat #0, 0 > > dwarf mov -2, 5 ;lunch bomb ahead > > mov -2, -5 ;lunch bomb behind > > add # 5, -4 ;incriment ahead coordinates > > sub #5, -4 ;decriment behind coordinates > > jmp dwarf > > end > > Also, you were adding 5 to one line, and subtracting -5 from the other. > That's fixed too. Note that subtracting negative five is the same as adding > five. > > Thank you. With your suggestions, I repaired the program, although I should have mentioned the genreal purpose of the progam is to do a bi-directional carpet bomb. Hopefully, it will work, even against small warriors. Once again, thank you Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From: "Ransom Smith" Subject: Re: Newbie needs help Date: 1999/10/28 Message-ID: #1/1 Usually, a dwarf will keep its pointer stored in the bombs, not in the MOV instructions. This makes it easier to see the bombs in cdb, and helps throw scanners off your trail. For this result, modify the warrior like so: > ;redcode > ;name Dwarven warrior > ;author Net Mantis > org dwarf > dat #0, 0 > dat #0, 0 > dwarf mov -2, 5 ;lunch bomb ahead > mov -2, -5 ;lunch bomb behind > add # 5, -4 ;incriment ahead coordinates > sub #5, -4 ;decriment behind coordinates > jmp dwarf > end Also, you were adding 5 to one line, and subtracting -5 from the other. That's fixed too. Note that subtracting negative five is the same as adding five. From: Quaestor Subject: Re: A.A.A. PLEASE HELP ME TO IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF MY SITE !! Date: 1999/10/29 Message-ID: <3819ED73.2CBE98EF@Skara.Brae>#1/1 Marco Tonellotto wrote: > Dear Sirs, > > Please visit my home page and give me some e-mail > to improve the quality of my site. Send also your opinion > about the present work. I'll apreciate every opinion to > increase my skill level. This is my first web page. Your first week on usenet, too? 1. Grow up before posting. 2. Don't crosspost all over the place. 3. PLONK (that means I don't want to ever see anything posted by you again, and I won't.) From: Ilmari Karonen Subject: Re: More newbie stuff :) Date: 1999/10/29 Message-ID: <7vc5fh$o7d$1@tron.sci.fi>#1/1 On Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:18:19 GMT, John K. Lewis (jklewis@ralf.itd.umich.edu) wrote: : Ilmari Karonen wrote: : > Ps. There's still four days left before IMT #2 deadline. Everyone is : > invited to participate - details at my web page. Note that if you've : > submitted a warrior and have NOT received a reply, please mail me. : How many entries so far? So far 14, and the arrival rate seems to be increasing all the time. This is a good start, but by no means enough yet.. ;-) -- Ilmari Karonen http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/ From: "Josh Yeager" Subject: Re: Newbie (my warrior) Date: 1999/10/29 Message-ID: <01bf2205$f41ebfe0$ad5a2581@compuwhiz-s-pc>#1/1 > I would have a go at developing your bomber, because in > some ways they are the simplext kind of warriors to > understand. Replicators are more complex. I've been here over a year and I STILL can't get a paper to work!!!! Josh From: "Lassi Marttala" Subject: Vs: A.A.A. PLEASE HELP ME TO IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF MY SITE !! Date: 1999/10/30 Message-ID: <7vehko$vqr$1@nuusi.puv.fi>#1/1 How about buying a domaain, filling it with low-quality porn pictures, c-post lame siteads all over the usenet and wait some idiots to send you their creadit card numbers. You sure have the talent for that. From: Peter Gerwinski Subject: Re: GPLed MARS implementation? Date: 1999/10/30 Message-ID: <7vegdb$a2k2@mx2.hrz.uni-essen.de>#1/1 Philip Kendall wrote: > Peter Gerwinski writes: >> (Is there any special reason why pMARS is no true free (Open-Source) >> Software?) > To be honest, why should it be? I'll stick up for open source > software, but if authors don't want to open source their software, > that's their choice to make. Of course it's their decision. That's why I am asking for an alternative implementation. (If there isn't one, I might start a project to create one.) Anyway I find there is nothing wrong in asking why something is _almost_ Open-Source, but not entirely. Peter -- http://home.pages.de/~Peter.Gerwinski/ - G-N-U GmbH: http://www.g-n-u.de Maintainer GNU Pascal - http://home.pages.de/~GNU-Pascal/ - gpc-19990118 GnuPG key fingerprint: 9E7C 0FC4 8A62 5536 1730 A932 9834 65DB 2143 9422 keys: ftp://ftp.gerwinski.de/pub/keys/ - AntiSpam: http://spam.abuse.net From: d98luna@dtek.chalmers.se (Daniel Luna) Subject: [Spam] Re: A.A.A. PLEASE HELP ME TO IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF MY SITE !! Date: 1999/10/30 Message-ID: #1/1 Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:54:43 -0700, Ranger.Hall@Skara.Brae (Quaestor) -> > Marco Tonellotto wrote: > > Dear Sirs, > > > > Please visit my home page and give me some e-mail > > to improve the quality of my site. Send also your opinion > > about the present work. I'll apreciate every opinion to > > increase my skill level. This is my first web page. > > Your first week on usenet, too? > > 1. Grow up before posting. > 2. Don't crosspost all over the place. > 3. PLONK > > (that means I don't want to ever see anything posted by you again, and I > won't.) I can only agree. But I have to say that your newsserver might have somewhat loose settings. I never had to read that original message so I guess it was filtered as spam by my newsserver. /Luna P.S. And _don't_ look at my homepage. I don't want it to become better... -- (Daniel Luna) {http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/~d98luna/ } (luna@cd.chalmers.se){There are two Rules of Success: } (ICQ:18459977) { 1. Don't tell everything you know. } From: M Joonas Pihlaja Subject: Re: GPLed MARS implementation? Date: 1999/10/31 Message-ID: #1/1 On Sat, 30 Oct 1999, Peter Gerwinski wrote: > Of course it's their decision. That's why I am asking for an > alternative implementation. (If there isn't one, I might start > a project to create one.) There's the jMARS project, an implementation in java, but I'm not sure what the status of that project is. > Anyway I find there is nothing wrong in asking why something is > _almost_ Open-Source, but not entirely. > Peter Joonas