From: "Robert Macrae" Subject: Re: modern benchmark Date: 1 Apr 2001 12:24:46 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c0ba7e$dd2048a0$2100a8c0@HomePC> > > The problem with that is that Koenigstuhl doesn't reflect the 'real' hills > > too well with the top of its open hill dominated by p-spacers and the 94nop > > hill dominated by scanners. > > I have to disagree that the (recursive) 'Koenigstuhl' ranks are dominated > by the scores against weaker warriors. ... > I claim: The Top-Koenigstuhl programs are the best programs written, > and are a good general benchmark. I took a look a this a while back. By design the recursive hills place a low weight on performance against weaker warriors so the top of the hill are warriors that do well against other strong warriors. I think the recursive hills are the best public measure we have of the state of the art, and any code that does well against them is likely to do well on the hills. When using any benchmark rather than testing against the hills you should consider a couple of potential problems: 1) An over-optimised warrior that is tuned to the benchmark step sizes, decoy locations etc will not do well against fresh opponents. 2) You will defend against threats and attempt to exploit opportunities that are not present at the hills at moment. IMHO this is good, because it increases your life expectancy, but it may make it a little harder to get on the hill for the first time... Robert Macrae From: ransom@localhost.localdomain (Ransom Smith) Subject: Re: Sad newbie attempt at an Imp Bomb Message-ID: Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 14:20:39 GMT On 31 Mar 2001 21:42:16 GMT, Ilmari Karonen wrote: >In article , MACSNITKOFF wrote: >>Is there anyway to get a MOV dwarf, 3 command to move everything shown? Or >>would I have to do MOV dwarf, 3 MOV dwarf+1, 4 . . . . > >Nope. One instruction per cycle is the limit, you can't move data any >faster than that. In fact, it's often called "c", as in the symbol for >the speed of light in physics. Your code is a 0.4c bomber, since it >hits two locations in five cycles. > However, If you have a mov command that gets executed more than once, you can have it copy different instructions the whole time. 'Silk' Papers often begin like this: spl @0, #99 mov }-1, >-1 That would ordinarily move only one instruction, but if you have a for 3 spl 1, 0 rof before it, it would move 8 instructions. Some CoreWarrior magazine explains it better. -- [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=5913] [foehg@burtonian.com] [http://www.koth.org/] [http://www.nethack.org/] [http://www.slashdot.org/] I reserve the right to be normal, at any time and without notice. From: "Robert Macrae" Subject: Re: Sad newbie attempt at an Imp Bomb Date: 1 Apr 2001 23:39:37 -0400 Message-ID: <001a01c0bafd$567e8bc0$2100a8c0@HomePC> > I can't seem to get a MOV command to move multiple lines. When you use a > word as a marker in the program like this: > dwarf: ADD #12, #6 > SUB #12, #0 > MOV 3, @-2 > MOV 2, @-2 > JMP -4 > DAT #33, #33 > > Is there anyway to get a MOV dwarf, 3 command to move everything shown? Or > would I have to do MOV dwarf, 3 MOV dwarf+1, 4 . . . . You can't merge the MOV operations, but you can merge the ADD and SUB. You could use something like: Ptr DAT #Bomb+1, #0 Inc DAT #12, #-12 Dwarf ADD Inc, Ptr MOV Bomb, @Ptr MOV Bomb, *Ptr JMP -3 Bomb DAT #33, #33 END Dwarf This adds to the a and b fields of Ptr in a single operation, so the loop is now only 4 instructions long and you throw an average of 0.5 bombs per cycle instead of 0.4 as before. The cost is that the warrior is 1 word longer, and making this kind of payoff is at the heart of writing good warriors. Of course there are lots of tricks you can try to make the warrior shorter again. Saving 1 word is easy. Saving 2 words might force you to use a stepsize of -3 -- left as an exercise ;-) BTW, the END is needed because the warrior no longer starts with the first word. Robert Macrae From: "Benjamin Ford" Subject: Re: modern benchmark Date: 2 Apr 2001 11:41:45 -0400 Message-ID: From: > "Benjamin Ford" wrote: > > The problem with that is that Koenigstuhl doesn't reflect the 'real' hills > > too well with the top of its open hill dominated by p-spacers and the 94nop > > hill dominated by scanners. In both cases, those are the best warriors to > > make huge gains against the 'chaff' warriors and at the same time have low > > tie rates against each other. > > I have to disagree that the (recursive) 'Koenigstuhl' ranks are dominated > by the scores against weaker warriors. > I did some testing with the function that does the weighting of scores > from stronger/weaker program and found a very minimal effect. Even if > I change it by large amounts the top programs stay on top (some just > change their order slightly). > I claim: The Top-Koenigstuhl programs are the best programs written, > and are a good general benchmark. > BUT, you're right that they might not constitute a good test-group for > the current hills. But that's because the hills are very small and > usually dominated by some kind of warrior. I won't disagree that the tops of the recursive hills are very good. And bringing up the weaker warriors probably wasn't the best point for me to make. Its more of an issue of the class of warriors. Like with scanners dominating the top of the 94nop hill. Scanners are helped on the 94nop hill since the scanner verses scanner battle ends with a high percentage of wins. Papers will never dominate that hill since paper verses paper produces a lot of ties and the recursive algorithms will help to bring them down. However, there still are a few warriors taking advantage of the weaker warriors. Fixed uses one of those retro-qscans that benefits from many q^2-warriors all being in the same order. Likewise, the published version of Newt exploits that same fact. Since pretty much noone uses q^2s anymore and certainly would not do it in the popularized published order, they lose some of their strength for where they are ranked for benchmark purposes. And as a benchmark, in general, how much are you going to learn by running one warrior up against Silver Talon 1.2, The Machine, Zooom..., and Boys are Back in Town 1.1? Sure, there are sometimes special cases where people optimize their papers against as many scanners as possible but in general going against that many similar warriors isn't neccessary. From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - ICWS Experimental 94 04/02/01 Date: 2 Apr 2001 11:41:41 -0400 Message-ID: <200104020400.AAA22311@gevjon.ttsg.com> Weekly Status on 04/02/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG ICWS Experimental 94 CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Fri Mar 30 16:11:41 EST 2001 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 71/ 21/ 8 Hold still a minute...Tha Dave Hillis 222 1 2 34/ 22/ 44 KAT v5 Dave Hillis 145 9 3 42/ 42/ 16 Greetings From Asbury Par JKW 142 37 4 39/ 37/ 24 Black Moods Ian Oversby 141 73 5 35/ 32/ 33 Controlled Aggression Ian Oversby 137 77 6 31/ 33/ 35 Big I.F.F.S. Dave Hillis 130 6 7 36/ 44/ 20 Aster v0 Dave Hillis 129 5 8 15/ 4/ 80 Black Box v1.1 JKW 126 40 9 28/ 31/ 41 Damage Inflicted Robert Macrae 126 16 10 24/ 26/ 51 Katafutr Michal Janeczek 122 17 11 31/ 41/ 27 Ogre Christian Schmidt 121 25 12 17/ 12/ 71 Evol Cap 4 X John Wilkinson 121 146 13 32/ 44/ 23 Pagan John K W 121 131 14 24/ 34/ 41 Disaster Area 2.10 Stefan Foerster 114 3 15 16/ 20/ 65 Denial David Moore 111 18 16 14/ 16/ 70 Evolve X v4.0 John Wilkinson 111 94 17 20/ 29/ 50 Venom v0.2b Christian Schmidt 111 99 18 21/ 32/ 46 Disaster Area 2.8 Stefan Foerster 110 4 19 24/ 41/ 35 test CS 107 34 20 16/ 29/ 55 Purple v0.1 Christian Schmidt 102 98 21 0/ 5/ 0 test +1 Dave Hillis 0 2 From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - Standard 04/02/01 Date: 2 Apr 2001 11:41:32 -0400 Message-ID: <200104020400.AAA22303@gevjon.ttsg.com> Weekly Status on 04/02/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG Standard KotH CoreWar Hill : Last battle concluded at : Wed Mar 14 00:59:01 EST 2001 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 33/ 22/ 45 Freight Train David Moore 145 74 2 33/ 22/ 45 sIMPly.Red v0.95 Leonardo Humberto 144 31 3 32/ 22/ 46 Test Alexander (Sasha) Wa 142 13 4 31/ 22/ 47 Guardian Ian Oversby 139 73 5 36/ 36/ 28 PacMan David Moore 137 103 6 37/ 39/ 24 Stasis David Moore 136 181 7 25/ 17/ 58 EV Paper John K Wilkinson 133 87 8 38/ 46/ 16 Foggy Swamp Beppe Bezzi 131 70 9 27/ 23/ 50 Shish-Ka-Bob Ben Ford 131 29 10 38/ 46/ 16 Blur '88 Anton Marsden 130 111 11 35/ 42/ 23 Beholder's Eye V1.7 W. Mintardjo 129 349 12 25/ 20/ 55 Test I Ian Oversby 129 130 13 34/ 39/ 27 Tangle Trap David Moore 128 147 14 25/ 22/ 53 sic Leonardo H. Liporati 128 3 15 30/ 33/ 37 Frog Sticker P.Kline 127 23 16 25/ 22/ 53 Evoltmp 88 John K W 127 124 17 15/ 4/ 81 ]enigma[ Michal Janeczek 127 2 18 37/ 47/ 16 Iron Gate Wayne Sheppard 126 399 19 32/ 39/ 28 Stillborn Bomber v0.2 mjp 126 14 20 37/ 49/ 15 ig Wayne Sheppard 125 1 21 35/ 51/ 14 Blurstone '88 M. J. Pihlaja 119 68 From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - MultiWarrior 94 04/02/01 Date: 2 Apr 2001 11:41:36 -0400 Message-ID: <200104020400.AAA22307@gevjon.ttsg.com> Weekly Status on 04/02/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG Multiwarrior 94 CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Fri Mar 30 13:56:30 EST 2001 # Name Author Score Age 1 Pitbull Christian Schmidt 37 11 2 Scan Test Tester 27 14 3 Her Majesty P.Kline 22 74 4 D-clearM Ken Espiritu 22 55 5 Foo John Metcalf 22 9 6 Friction Ken Espiritu 18 27 7 QuiVa John Metcalf 16 148 8 fclear Brian Haskin 16 39 9 Dracula's Cape Ben Ford 16 33 10 Parasite 1.3 Stefan Foerster 6 1 11 Disaster Area 2.15 Stefan Foerster 3 0 From: birk@andromeda.ociw.edu Subject: Re: modern benchmark Date: 2 Apr 2001 14:06:04 -0400 Message-ID: <200104021801.f32I1DZ20801@andromeda.ociw.edu> "Benjamin Ford" wrote: > And as a benchmark, in general, how much are you going to learn by running > one warrior up against Silver Talon 1.2, The Machine, Zooom..., and Boys are > Back in Town 1.1? What about: 'Quicksilver', 'Newt', 'Jade', 'Fixed', 'Recovery' ... ? They are all within the Top-25 too. Christoph From: birk@andromeda.ociw.edu Subject: Re: modern benchmark Date: 2 Apr 2001 14:30:10 -0400 Message-ID: <200104021822.f32IMcI21172@andromeda.ociw.edu> >"Benjamin Ford" wrote: >> And as a benchmark, in general, how much are you going to learn by running >> one warrior up against Silver Talon 1.2, The Machine, Zooom..., and Boys are >> Back in Town 1.1? birk@andromeda.ociw.edu wrote: > What about: 'Quicksilver', 'Newt', 'Jade', 'Fixed', 'Recovery' ... ? > They are all within the Top-25 too. ... I forgot to answer your question: I think you have a pretty darn good warrior if it is able to beat the top-25 Koenigstuhl :-) Christoph From: "Benjamin Ford" Subject: Re: modern benchmark Date: 2 Apr 2001 16:00:35 -0400 Message-ID: From: birk@andromeda.ociw.edu > >"Benjamin Ford" wrote: > >> And as a benchmark, in general, how much are you going to learn by >running > >> one warrior up against Silver Talon 1.2, The Machine, Zooom..., and >Boys are > >> Back in Town 1.1? > >birk@andromeda.ociw.edu wrote: > > What about: 'Quicksilver', 'Newt', 'Jade', 'Fixed', 'Recovery' ... ? > > They are all within the Top-25 too. > >.. I forgot to answer your question: I think you have a pretty darn >good warrior if it is able to beat the top-25 Koenigstuhl :-) > >Christoph Yes, if something does well against the top 25 Koen, it will likely do well on the regular hill as well. Just using some of those as benchmarks are silly. Like 'The Question' and 'Forty' are a bit silly with all they have in them since they were designed for a special tournament round rather than as actual hill entries (does say something about Blur style scanners however). But as a benchmark, you end up testing against like 8 blur-style scanners in the top 25 but you don't test your warrior against any HSA or carpet-variant scanners. Depends on what you are trying to use the benchmark for I guess. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From: Aaron Sawyer Subject: Re: crack Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 09:03:24 -0400 Message-ID: <3AC9CA1C.16B48D8@iris.com> M Joonas Pihlaja wrote: > > Proudly[1] presenting: > > Fcrack -- tools to crack -F numbers. > > - It will solve ALL your problems! > - Been LARTed lately? Crack your enemies' -F number! > - Make Tons of $$$! Crack your local koth server and threaten > to publish their -F number! Guaranteed to pay up[2]. > > Get your copy today! > > http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/~jpihlaja/cw/ > > Regards, > > Joonas (wearing fireproof overalls) > > [1] Or perhaps not so *proudly*, exactly. More caffeine, > anybody? > > [2] Extortion may be illegal in your part of the world. Proceed > at your own risk. 8-) Nice. Very nice. The czech is in the mail; ask _him_ if he likes aluminum underwear. Brrrr. -- .============================v============================. | D. Aaron Sawyer : Aaron.Sawyer@IrisSP.AMcom | | Iris Associates : Voice: +1.978.392.5298 | | Five Technology Park Drive : Fax: +1.978.392.6669 | | Westford, MA 01886 : Email: s/SP.AM/./ above | `============================^============================' From: M Joonas Pihlaja Subject: crack Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 10:00:12 +0300 Message-ID: Proudly[1] presenting: Fcrack -- tools to crack -F numbers. - It will solve ALL your problems! - Been LARTed lately? Crack your enemies' -F number! - Make Tons of $$$! Crack your local koth server and threaten to publish their -F number! Guaranteed to pay up[2]. Get your copy today! http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/~jpihlaja/cw/ Regards, Joonas (wearing fireproof overalls) [1] Or perhaps not so *proudly*, exactly. More caffeine, anybody? [2] Extortion may be illegal in your part of the world. Proceed at your own risk. From: Daniel Malboeuf Subject: First Warrior Date: 3 Apr 2001 20:25:40 -0400 Message-ID: <20010403145747.24552.qmail@web10406.mail.yahoo.com> It's my first warrior and I'm looking for tips on how to improve it etc. Daniel C Malboeuf ;redcode ;name EBOLA strain 2.1 ;version 2.1 ;date 02/04/01 ;author DC Malboeuf ;strategy stun + clear ;strategy Stun every 8th address of the core ;strategy after each pass through memory launch a core clear ;assert CORESIZE==8000 step equ 8 scan equ 32 reset mov a1,b1 ;reset after clear mov a2,b2 jmp begin a1 mov -5, -20 a2 dat $0,$0 gun spl 0 ;stun ptr dat #scan, #scan begin mov gun,@ptr add #step,ptr jmn begin, ptr mov #scan, ptr ;clear b1 mov ptr, -20 sub #1, b1 jmz b1, b2 jmp reset b2 dat $0, $0 end __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From: "martinankerl" Subject: Re: crack Date: 3 Apr 2001 20:25:44 -0400 Message-ID: <000901c0bc2e$65a42e70$6f02110a@martinus> lol :) > Proudly[1] presenting: > > Fcrack -- tools to crack -F numbers. > > - It will solve ALL your problems! > - Been LARTed lately? Crack your enemies' -F number! > - Make Tons of $$$! Crack your local koth server and threaten > to publish their -F number! Guaranteed to pay up[2]. > > Get your copy today! > > http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/~jpihlaja/cw/ > > Regards, > > Joonas (wearing fireproof overalls) > > [1] Or perhaps not so *proudly*, exactly. More caffeine, > anybody? > > [2] Extortion may be illegal in your part of the world. Proceed > at your own risk. > From: SMJ Subject: Embarassing problems with listbot Date: 3 Apr 2001 20:25:47 -0400 Message-ID: <986290465.3ac9992188ffe@email.qut.edu.au> Hi Corewarriors, I hate to post this to the list, but I'm having difficulty unsubscribing, and was wondering if anyone could fill me in on exactly what to mail, and to the address of what listbot. I've tried RTFMing, and turned up nothing that worked. :) Apologies again, guys. Any help would be appreciated. - Steve ("It's not just a name, it's a sexual preference.") From: Hillis Subject: Re: Help with optimization Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 21:52:33 -0400 Message-ID: <3ACA7E61.EB982027@erols.com> MACSNITKOFF wrote: > > Hey, you may remember me. . . I now have a dwarf throwing dwarf, and I want > to optimize the code, and it never gets past the second line with my version > of the optimized code, and I can't figure out why, maybe you can help. > > Optimized: > ;redcode-94 > ;name DwarfBomb > ;author Ben Snitkoff > ;stategy Dwarf throwing dwarf > ;assert 1 > > org main > > dwarf: ADD #12, 2 > SUB #12, 2 > MOV bomb, 6 > MOV bomb, 6 > JMP -4 > bomb: DAT #33, #33 > > > main: ADD #800, @1 > DAT #0, 8 > MOV dwarf, @-1 > MOV dwarf+1, @-2 > MOV dwarf+2, @-3 > MOV dwarf+3, @-4 > MOV dwarf+4, @-5 > MOV dwarf+5, @-6 > SPL <-6 > JMP main > > end > It looks like you crash on the second line because your process dies when it executes the "DAT". If you change it to "NOP #0, 8" then you will fall through harmlessly. But then you'll have a useless instruction wasting time in your loop. Better to move the line outside the loop entirely. Dave Hillis Subject: Help with optimization From: MACSNITKOFF Message-ID: Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 00:51:41 GMT Hey, you may remember me. . . I now have a dwarf throwing dwarf, and I want to optimize the code, and it never gets past the second line with my version of the optimized code, and I can't figure out why, maybe you can help. Optimized: ;redcode-94 ;name DwarfBomb ;author Ben Snitkoff ;stategy Dwarf throwing dwarf ;assert 1 org main dwarf: ADD #12, 2 SUB #12, 2 MOV bomb, 6 MOV bomb, 6 JMP -4 bomb: DAT #33, #33 main: ADD #800, @1 DAT #0, 8 MOV dwarf, @-1 MOV dwarf+1, @-2 MOV dwarf+2, @-3 MOV dwarf+3, @-4 MOV dwarf+4, @-5 MOV dwarf+5, @-6 SPL <-6 JMP main end Old Code: ;redcode-94 ;name DwarfBomb ;author Ben Snitkoff org main dwarf: ADD #12, 2 SUB #12, 2 MOV bomb, 6 MOV bomb, 6 JMP -4 bomb: DAT #33, #33 main: ADD #800, 7 ADD #800, 7 ADD #800, 7 ADD #800, 7 ADD #800, 7 ADD #800, 7 ADD #800, 7 MOV dwarf, 8 MOV dwarf+1, 8 MOV dwarf+2, 8 MOV dwarf+3, 8 MOV dwarf+4, 8 MOV dwarf+5, 8 SPL @-6 JMP main end Also, can anyone tell me if pspace is a stack or a queue? Thanks! Ben From: ransom@localhost.localdomain (Ransom Smith) Subject: Re: Help with optimization Message-ID: Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 12:23:09 GMT On Wed, 04 Apr 2001 00:51:41 GMT, MACSNITKOFF wrote: >Hey, you may remember me. . . I now have a dwarf throwing dwarf, and I want >to optimize the code, and it never gets past the second line with my version >of the optimized code, and I can't figure out why, maybe you can help. > > >Optimized: >;redcode-94 >;name DwarfBomb >;author Ben Snitkoff >;stategy Dwarf throwing dwarf >;assert 1 > > org main > >dwarf: ADD #12, 2 > SUB #12, 2 > MOV bomb, 6 > MOV bomb, 6 > JMP -4 >bomb: DAT #33, #33 > > >main: ADD #800, @1 > DAT #0, 8 > [snip] The dat would do it. Move it somewhere you're not executing. > > >Also, can anyone tell me if pspace is a stack or a queue? Thanks! > >Ben > > It's random access. You access it through index numbers. A Pspace stack is a meritoriously interesting idea, though. What are the implementation issues for-- P-switchers? -F Scanners? Process-finders? Brainwashers? > > > -- [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=5913] [foehg@burtonian.com] [http://www.koth.org/] [http://www.nethack.org/] [http://www.slashdot.org/] I reserve the right to be normal, at any time and without notice. From: pak21@cam.ac.uk (Philip Kendall) Subject: Re: Embarassing problems with listbot Date: 5 Apr 2001 09:32:12 +0100 Message-ID: <9ahaic$soo$1@kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk> In article <986290465.3ac9992188ffe@email.qut.edu.au>, SMJ wrote: > >I hate to post this to the list, but I'm having difficulty unsubscribing, and >was wondering if anyone could fill me in on exactly what to mail, and to the >address of what listbot. I've tried RTFMing, and turned up nothing that worked. Mail `listproc@koth.org', with a message body of `unsubscribe corewar-l'. I think -- it's what I gleaned from http://www.koth.org/newsgroup.html anyway... HTH, Phil -- Philip Kendall http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~pak21/ Subject: Annoying................................................... From: MACSNITKOFF Message-ID: Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 21:31:29 GMT There must be a way to filter this stuff out. . . . Ben From: Lukasz Adamowski Subject: Experimental Hill Date: 6 Apr 2001 10:28:57 -0400 Message-ID: I've found on standing list of '94 Experimental Hill, that "Hold still a minute... Thanks" by Dave Hillis earned 100% of points fighting against itself. Interesting... I guess it's a small trick with PIN, am I right, Dave? If not, how is it possible? Lukasz From: Lukasz Adamowski Subject: Re: First Warrior Date: 6 Apr 2001 10:28:40 -0400 Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Apr 2001, Daniel Malboeuf wrote: > It's my first warrior and I'm looking for tips on how > to improve it etc. > > ;redcode > ;name EBOLA strain 2.1 > ;version 2.1 > ;date 02/04/01 > ;author DC Malboeuf > ;strategy stun + clear > ;strategy Stun every 8th address of the core > ;strategy after each pass through memory launch a > core clear > ;assert CORESIZE==8000 > > step equ 8 > scan equ 32 > > reset mov a1,b1 ;reset after > clear > mov a2,b2 > jmp begin > a1 mov -5, -20 > a2 dat $0,$0 > > gun spl 0 ;stun > ptr dat #scan, #scan > begin mov gun,@ptr > add #step,ptr > jmn begin, ptr > > mov #scan, ptr ;clear > b1 mov ptr, -20 > sub #1, b1 > jmz b1, b2 > jmp reset > b2 dat $0, $0 > > end Not bad. But... Clears usually use decrement instead of SUB #1, b1 (actually modern clears use increment to be sure no imps survive). That would looks like: [...] b1 mov ptr, <-20 jmz b1, b2 [...] That's one instruction less and only 2 instructions in loop, so 150% times faster. To make your warrior more effective against b-field scanners you can make it "quiet" by avoiding non-zero b-fields and using a-field indirect addressing. I.e. stun loop can be done like this: [...] ptr dat #scan, $0 begin mov gun, *ptr add.a #step, ptr jmz.a begin, ptr ; actually I'm not sure if it will work, sorry ;) mov.a #scan, ptr [...] I cannot check the JMN.A instruction now, but general idea is that whole pointering is made by a-field. It works only under extended instruction set, but that's not a problem, most of nowadays hills allows it. Another thing, clear or bomber (like your stunning code) can also work as gate, but I won't write about it here, sorry, I have no more time. Happy coding! Lukasz From: Lukasz Adamowski Subject: Re: crack Date: 6 Apr 2001 10:28:49 -0400 Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Apr 2001, M Joonas Pihlaja wrote: > > Proudly[1] presenting: > > Fcrack -- tools to crack -F numbers. > > - It will solve ALL your problems! > - Been LARTed lately? Crack your enemies' -F number! > - Make Tons of $$$! Crack your local koth server and threaten > to publish their -F number! Guaranteed to pay up[2]. > > Get your copy today! > > http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/~jpihlaja/cw/ > > Regards, > > Joonas (wearing fireproof overalls) > > [1] Or perhaps not so *proudly*, exactly. More caffeine, > anybody? > > [2] Extortion may be illegal in your part of the world. Proceed > at your own risk. I'd better check my hill... B))) If anybody use it on my hill, you'd better wear something more, Joonas (concrete maybe ;) Lukasz From: birk@andromeda.ociw.edu Subject: Re: Help with optimization Date: 6 Apr 2001 10:28:53 -0400 Message-ID: <200104041728.f34HS6902116@andromeda.ociw.edu> MACSNITKOFF wrote: > Hey, you may remember me. . . I now have a dwarf throwing dwarf > [...] > ;redcode-94 > ;name DwarfBomb > [...] I think this is as close as possible to your original idea. I hope the comments I added explain the changes: ;redcode-94 ;name DwarfBomb (v2) ;author Ben Snitkoff ;stategy Dwarf throwing dwarf ;assert 1 org main bomb: DAT #33, #33 ; move here from after 'jmp dwarf' (CCB) dwarf: ADD #12, 2 SUB #12, 2 MOV bomb, 6 MOV bomb, 6 JMP dwarf main: ADD #800, $ptr ; changed to '$' from '@' (CCB) ptr: NOP #0, 8 ; changed from DAT (CCB) MOV bomb, >ptr ; changed to '>' from '@' (CCB) MOV bomb+1, >ptr ; changed 'dwarf' to 'bomb' (CCB) MOV bomb+2, >ptr MOV bomb+3, >ptr MOV bomb+4, >ptr MOV bomb+5, >ptr SPL Subject: Re: Help with optimization Date: 6 Apr 2001 10:28:44 -0400 Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Apr 2001, MACSNITKOFF wrote: > Optimized: > ;redcode-94 > ;name DwarfBomb > ;author Ben Snitkoff > ;stategy Dwarf throwing dwarf > ;assert 1 > > org main > > dwarf: ADD #12, 2 > SUB #12, 2 > MOV bomb, 6 > MOV bomb, 6 > JMP -4 > bomb: DAT #33, #33 > > > main: ADD #800, @1 > DAT #0, 8 > MOV dwarf, @-1 > MOV dwarf+1, @-2 > MOV dwarf+2, @-3 > MOV dwarf+3, @-4 > MOV dwarf+4, @-5 > MOV dwarf+5, @-6 > SPL <-6 > JMP main > > end > > Old Code: > ;redcode-94 > ;name DwarfBomb > ;author Ben Snitkoff > > org main > > dwarf: ADD #12, 2 > SUB #12, 2 > MOV bomb, 6 > MOV bomb, 6 > JMP -4 > bomb: DAT #33, #33 > > > main: ADD #800, 7 > ADD #800, 7 > ADD #800, 7 > ADD #800, 7 > ADD #800, 7 > ADD #800, 7 > ADD #800, 7 > MOV dwarf, 8 > MOV dwarf+1, 8 > MOV dwarf+2, 8 > MOV dwarf+3, 8 > MOV dwarf+4, 8 > MOV dwarf+5, 8 > SPL @-6 > JMP main > > end Gee... A lot of code. B) > Also, can anyone tell me if pspace is a stack or a queue? Thanks! Neither a stack nor a queue. It's just a regular memory, with direct non-relative addressing. Lukasz From: Lukasz Adamowski Subject: Re: Sad newbie attempt at an Imp Bomb Date: 6 Apr 2001 10:29:01 -0400 Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Apr 2001, Ransom Smith wrote: > On 31 Mar 2001 21:42:16 GMT, Ilmari Karonen wrote: > >In article , MACSNITKOFF wrote: > >>Is there anyway to get a MOV dwarf, 3 command to move everything shown? Or > >>would I have to do MOV dwarf, 3 MOV dwarf+1, 4 . . . . > > > >Nope. One instruction per cycle is the limit, you can't move data any > >faster than that. In fact, it's often called "c", as in the symbol for > >the speed of light in physics. Your code is a 0.4c bomber, since it > >hits two locations in five cycles. > > > > However, If you have a mov command that gets executed more than once, you > can have it copy different instructions the whole time. 'Silk' Papers often > begin like this: > > spl @0, #99 > mov }-1, >-1 > You can also make an ordinary loop, Snitty. Something like this: dest DAT $0, $100 sour DAT $0, $1 MOV >sour, >dest DJN $-1, #number_of_cells_to_copy MOV #number_of_cells_to_copy, $-1 ... then rest of code. Last MOV is to repair value in DJN instruction after changing it by copying loop. However simple, loops aren't very effective. The code above is the simplest I know. Classic warrior called (as I remember) Gemini works in that way. The most important thing in papers is decrement/incerment addressing, so I think you should think about it, if you want to write this kind of warriors. And here is one of my ideas: MOV #4, $0 MOV <-1, <103 JMN $-1, $-2 JMP @101 Can you understand it, Snitty? :) Lukasz From: Curious Forestweaver Subject: Re: Help with optimization Date: 6 Apr 2001 10:35:15 -0400 Message-ID: <20010404225606.A1181@babcock.masks.net.au> On 2001.04.04 11:32 MACSNITKOFF wrote: > I now have a dwarf throwing dwarf, If you'll excuse this slightly off topic comment, this sounds like a great idea for a Olympic demonstration sport. Bryn. -- Dwarf Dwarf Tossing. From: "Arcus Investment" Subject: Re: Help with optimization Date: 6 Apr 2001 10:35:20 -0400 Message-ID: <004101c0bcd9$566d4260$2100a8c0@HomePC> ... > > main: ADD #800, @1 > > DAT #0, 8 > > MOV dwarf, @-1 > > MOV dwarf+1, @-2 > > MOV dwarf+2, @-3 > > MOV dwarf+3, @-4 > > MOV dwarf+4, @-5 > > MOV dwarf+5, @-6 > > SPL <-6 > > JMP main > > > > end > > > > It looks like you crash on the second line because your process dies > when it executes the "DAT". If you change it to "NOP #0, 8" then you > will fall through harmlessly. But then you'll have a useless instruction > wasting time in your loop. Better to move the line outside the loop > entirely. You will then hit problem #2, that you are using the wrong addressing modes. You want: ADD #800, 1 ; @ indirects so @1 adds 800 to the JMP main instruction MOV dwarf, >-1 ; both > and @ indirect, but > increments the pointer after each move. Otherwise the whole dwarf gets copied into a single word. SPL -6 ; < indirects and pre-decrements, which will mess up your first MOV instruction [This reminds me of my short-lived attempt to teach myself C; I could write reasonable code, but wasted far too long trying to guess whether to use pointers or pointers to pointers when passing arrays to functions...] Robert Macrae From: Hillis Subject: Re: Experimental Hill Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 14:15:26 -0400 Message-ID: <3ACE07BE.3686EC75@erols.com> Lukasz Adamowski wrote: > > I've found on standing list of '94 Experimental Hill, that "Hold still a > minute... Thanks" by Dave Hillis earned 100% of points fighting against > itself. Interesting... I guess it's a small trick with PIN, am I right, > Dave? If not, how is it possible? > Lukasz No. Or actually yes but... I quess it's easiest to post the warriors. Big I.I.F.S. is a "sleeper" or "mole". It's acts normal, but when it gets the secret code, it switches to spy mode and reports back the starting position for one of the battles on the hill. If you ask it for the first battle, you get the -F number. So it is like fcrack, but only works on hills w/ P-space. (Your hills are very safe from me because they are encrypted in a language I can't crack :-)) The basic idea was described way back in CW30 but I didn't know that when I created these. "Hold still..." and "Aster v0" both got the death sentence yesterday but the warrior with the ;kill commands is stuck in the queue at KotH. I'll post the warriors, with their true constants, after this. I will be away from email for the next week or so, so please be patient. Dave Hillis From: Hillis Subject: Re: Experimental Hill Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 14:18:27 -0400 Message-ID: <3ACE0873.1D39F847@erols.com> Subject: koth Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 08:03:44 -0500 From: Hillis To: koth@koth.org ;redcode-94x ;name Big I.F.F.S. ;kill Big I.F.F. ;(identification friend or foe) ;author Dave Hillis ;strategy - Experimenting with P^3 tables ;strategy - using other people's components ; But this version includes a sleeper. If it gets the ;signal, it goes into a doze while the spy master ;gathers and reports back information about the -F ;number on the hill. ;p-switch idea from John Metcalf ;borrows from Katafutr by Michal Janeczek ;Paul Kline's FireHouse, ;55HSB by Robert Macrae. ;handshake from Bigboy by Robert Macrae. ;denial by david Moore ;assert CORESIZE==55440 PIN 5339 _SLEEP equ #555 S_CODE equ #200 activate ldp _SLEEP, #0 seq.ab S_CODE, activate jmp first, activate ; If enemy identified, p^3 table doze jmp #0, #0 ;here is the handshake from Bigboy by Robert Macrae. _RESULT equ #0 _ROUNDS equ #42236 _BOOT equ #42237 _FRIEND equ #42240 _ENEMY equ #42242 _LOSE equ #42256 _WIN equ _LOSE+1 _SANE equ #12245 _TEST equ #12260 notmad equ #13276 first enemy ldp _ENEMY, #0 jmn think, enemy ; If enemy identified, p^3 table friend ldp _FRIEND, #0 jmz hands, friend ; Handshake if status U/K jmp fixgame, >-8000; or else allot win as appropriate hands ldp _RESULT, #0 sne.b hands, #-1 jmp startup, >-7600; Initialise _SANE on first round sane ldp _SANE, #0 seq.b sane, notmad jmp asylum, >-7800 ; Rebuild P-space if brainwashed. rounds ldp _ROUNDS, #0 add.ba -1, 1 stp #1, _ROUNDS ; increment round counter, sne.b hands, #2 jmp think, >-8200 ; and fight until someone wins. add.b hands, wflag ; Store a Flag for winner and loser wflag stp #1, _LOSE sub.ba hands, rflag ; Won->1, Lost->2 rflag ldp _WIN, #0 ; Read the other flag jmz.b asylum, rflag ; If zero I must have an enemy. stp #1, _FRIEND ; Whoopee! stp #1, _TEST ; Flag the fact that I'm stp #0, _WIN ; identifying future winner stp #0, _LOSE ; clean up dat #0, #0 ; Yes, Anders, I like it too :-) ; First mover loses, sadly. fixgame ldp _TEST, #0 sane2 ldp _SANE, #0 ; Throw in a paranoid sanity check seq.b sane2, notmad jmp asylum jmz winlose, fixgame ; If I've finished testing, do it. round2 ldp _ROUNDS, #0 mod.ab #2, round2 stp #0, _TEST ; Don't need to test again. jmn.b winlose, round2 ; Choose which block... losewin ldp _RESULT, #0 jmz.b 0, losewin ; Wrong winner last round. dat #0, #0 winlose ldp _RESULT, #0 jmn.b 0, winlose ; Winner keeps on winning! dat #0, #0 ; Addicted? Me? asylum stp #1, _ENEMY ; If I've been washed, somebody startup stp notmad, _SANE ; _is_ out to get me! jmp think, >-7600 ; jump to p^3 table ; -- scanner from katafutr vSpace equ 18480 vStep equ 13 vPtr dat vScan , tBoot+3 dat 0 , 0 dat 0 , 0 vAttack mov.ba vPtr , vPtr mov #vPtr-vSpiral , vSpiral add.b vPtr , vSpiral vSpiral mov.x @0 , @0 ; extract spiral increment mov.b @vSpiral , vSpiral vWipe mov vSpl , vPtr , >vPtr jmn.f vWipe , >vPtr add.ba vSpiral , vPtr ; try spiral search jmz.f vMod , *vPtr mov.ab vPtr , vPtr slt vPtr , #vClr+3-vPtr jmn.f vWipe , @vPtr vMod mod #vSpace-10 , vPtr vNext add #vStep , vPtr ; f-scan vScan jmz.f vNext , @vPtr mod #vSpace-10 , vPtr ; confine search space vSelf slt vPtr , #vClr+8-vPtr vGate jmz.f vAttack , vPtr+1 djn vNext , #9 ; count self-scans spl #0 , #0 vSpl spl #0 , #0 mov vClr , <-2 ; reverse-wipe to ;overcome self-stuns mov vClr , >vGate ; forward-wipe to win mov vClr , >vGate djn.f -2 , >vGate vClr dat 0 , 2-vGate for 10 dat 0 , 0 rof ; for 4 dat 0, 0 rof ; -- bomber from katafutr tStep equ 16134 tTime equ 9241 tGate equ (tWipex-3) tCheck equ (tHit+23) tDist equ 9362 tWipex dat 1 , tClear+5-tGate tSplx spl #tStep+1 , tClear+5-tGate mov.i }tCheck , #0 tPtrx mov tHit-tTime*tStep , *tHit-(tTime-2)*tStep add tInc , tPtrx mov tSplx , *tPtrx mov }tCheck , @tPtrx tHit jmn.a tPtrx , {tCheck tInc spl #3*tStep , <3*tStep tClear mov *tWipex , >tGate mov *tWipex , >tGate djn.f tClear , }tSplx tMov mov -tStep , }-tStep ; -- brain PSTATE equ 2031 ;w0 and w3 not used w1 equ tStart w2 equ vStart ;w5 is denial ;w4 is 55HSB for 1 think ldp.a #0 , in ldp.a #PSTATE , table mod.ba *in , table stp.b *table , #PSTATE rof for 0 think nop #0 , in nop #PSTATE , table nop *in , table nop *table , #PSTATE rof ; S L W T ;table jmp first table jmp }0, # 136 ; 0: action 2 : 6 10 1 spl # w2, # 994 ; 1: action 2 : 6 0 4 spl # w4, # 240 ; 2: action 4 : 6 2 0 spl # w5, # 1955 ; 3: action 5 : 5 9 5 spl # w5, # 917 ; 4: action 5 : 7 7 2 spl # w1, # 125 ; 5: action 1 : 8 13 5 spl # w4, # 1906 ; 6: action 4 : 8 2 1 spl # w5, # 1451 ; 7: action 5 : 8 9 11 spl # w1, # 2343 ; 8: action 1 : 3 5 3 spl # w5, # 1437 ; 9: action 5 : 7 9 12 spl # w2, # 990 ; 10: action 2 : 2 10 0 spl # w5, # 1608 ; 11: action 5 : 9 12 3 spl # w5, # 779 ; 12: action 5 : 12 9 14 spl # w1, # 411 ; 13: action 1 : 8 5 6 spl # w5, # 922 ; 14: action 5 : 12 12 7 in spl #w4 , 13 ; must have non-zero b-field in spl #0 , 14 ; the previous cell dat 0 , 15 vStart mov tDist+tSplx+1 , tDist+tMov ; -- ; ----------- denial ---------- w5 equ boot hStep equ 859 hTime equ 23300 hDjn equ 45001 hOff equ 5 hDist equ 30133 hMain spl #5 , 1 ;for 85 ;dat 0,0 ;rof i13 equ 34117 i19 equ 29179 iD1 equ 203 iD2 equ 804 iDist equ 30361 imp1 mov.i #5, i19 imp2 mov.i #i13, *0 impy spl #i19, tPtr ,@tPtr mov >tPtr ,>tPtr jmn.f tWipe ,>tPtr tScan sub.x #-12 ,tPtr ; increment and look sne *tPtr ,@tPtr sub.x *pScan ,@tScan ; increment and look jmn.f tSelf ,@tPtr jmz.f tScan ,*tPtr pScan mov.x @tScan ,@tScan ; swap pointers for attack tSelf slt.b @tScan ,#tEnd+4-tPtr ; self-check djn tWipe ,@tScan ; go to attack djn *pScan ,#13 ; after 13 self-scans bw mov bb, 0, #0 db dat tSpl-tPtr, 1 dat 0, 0 tSpl spl 0, 0 dat 0, 0 bPtr dat 0, #tPtr tEnd dat 0, 0 ; ---------------------------------- From: Hillis Subject: Re: Experimental Hill Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 14:22:24 -0400 Message-ID: <3ACE0960.AAADB4D5@erols.com> ;redcode-94x ;name Dying to Know /0 ;dist /240 rnd 0 ;author Dave Hillis ;strategy - Experimenting with P-space ;assert CORESIZE==55440 ;Tells the starting postion for a given ;round in the fixed sequence. ;The number of ties against the sleeper ;(minus the round number) ;is the answer = starting position/240 ; PIN 5339 ; I think these constants are superfluous _RESULT equ #0 _ROUNDS equ #2236 _BOOT equ #2237 _FRIEND equ #2240 _ENEMY equ #2242 _LOSE equ #2256 _WIN equ _LOSE+1 _SANE equ #2245 _TEST equ #2260 notmad equ #3276 ;these are the constants that matter _SLEEP equ #555 S_CODE equ #200 _COUNTER equ # 193 _DIST equ #12; holds the distance from first rnd WRAP equ 110 THE_RND equ #0 ; report the starting position for round 0 first stp S_CODE, _SLEEP ; activate the sleeper thecnt ldp _COUNTER, #0 ;increment a round counter add.ab #1, -1 stp.b -2, _COUNTER ; seq.ab #1, thecnt seq.ab THE_RND +1, thecnt jmp report ;scan till I find the other warrior jmz #0, }first add.a #-1, first ;falls through when it finds something div.a #240, first ; mod.a #240, first stp.ab first, _DIST report ldp _DIST, #0 ; slt.ab # WRAP, $ thecnt slt.b $ -1, $ thecnt doze jmp #0, #0 kill spl #0, #0 mov 1, }1 dat 100, 100 ; ;===================================== ;redcode-94x ;name Dying to Know %0 ;dist %240 rnd 0 ;author Dave Hillis ;strategy - Experimenting with P^3 tables ;assert CORESIZE==55440 ;The number of ties against the sleeper ;(minus the round number) ;is the answer = starting position%240 ; PIN 5339 _RESULT equ #0 _ROUNDS equ #2236 _BOOT equ #2237 _FRIEND equ #2240 _ENEMY equ #2242 _LOSE equ #2256 _WIN equ _LOSE+1 _SANE equ #2245 _TEST equ #2260 notmad equ #3276 _SLEEP equ #555 S_CODE equ #200 _COUNTER equ # 193 _DIST equ #12; holds the distance from first rnd WRAP equ 110 THE_RND equ #0 first stp S_CODE, _SLEEP ; activate the sleeper thecnt ldp _COUNTER, #0 ;increment a round counter add.ab #1, -1 stp.b -2, _COUNTER ; seq.ab #1, thecnt seq.ab THE_RND +1, thecnt jmp report ;scan till I find the other warrior jmz #0, }first add.a #-1, first ;falls through when it finds something ; div.a #240, first mod.a #240, first stp.ab first, _DIST report ldp _DIST, #0 ; slt.ab # WRAP, $ thecnt slt.b $ -1, $ thecnt doze jmp #0, #0 kill spl #0, #0 mov 1, }1 dat 100, 100 ; From: Hillis Subject: Re: Experimental Hill Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 14:26:14 -0400 Message-ID: <3ACE0A46.66996F4C@erols.com> Subject: koth Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 16:03:25 -0500 From: Hillis To: koth ;redcode-94x verbose ;assert CORESIZE == 55440 ;name Hold still a minute...Thanks ;author Dave Hillis ;kill test + ;strategy - Another abusive warrior ;strategy - updated to catch some of the warriors ;strategy - that boot away quickly. ;for -F 27723 ; ; ORG START _RESULT equ #0 ;P-space cell 0: last round result _STRATEGY equ #21345 ;user-defined off equ 0 ;100 _COUNTER equ # 200 ; doubles as a bombing offset WRAP equ 125 STEP equ 11 ;4 target1 equ target2-1 target2 dat _COUNTER, _COUNTER START thecnt ldp _COUNTER, #0 ;increment a round counter add.b -1, b ; stp.b $ b, _COUNTER slt.ab # WRAP, $ b jmp bomber add.ab # -WRAP, b mov.x @ b, @ b bomber mov.a @ b , $ target1 sub.ab $ target1, $ target1 add.f $ target1, target2 ;Get in a quick shot mov.i -200, * target2 mov.i -200, @ target2 ;== now am I the first warrior or the second? ;== scan till I find something, then attack ; ;switch mov.x $ target1, $ target1 ; I must be the second warrior ; mov.x $ target2, $ target2 ; 3/28/01 adjust boot distance relative to the enemy add.a $ target1, $ tBoot add.ab $ target1, $ tBoot attack mov.i < target2 , } target1 mov.i { target2 , > target1 mov.i } target1, < target2 mov.i > target1, { target2 for 1 mov.i < target2 , } target1 mov.i { target2 , > target1 mov.i } target1, < target2 mov.i > target1, { target2 rof add.i # -STEP,$ target2 add.i # STEP,$ target1 djn.b $ attack, # 13 ;52 ; Now to mop up. ; Boot the scanner to a favorable location relative to the ; enemy. If I lost or tied last round, try a new relative location. ; 1=win, 2=tie, 0=loss res ldp #0, 0 strat ldp _STRATEGY, 0 sne.ab # 1, $ res ; if I won, use same location jmp $ adj change mul.ab # 41, $ strat add.ab # 25442, $ strat stp.b $ strat, _STRATEGY adj add.ba $ strat, $ tBoot add.b $ strat, $ tBoot ;jmp w1 ; ========================================== w1 equ tStart tStart mov tMov , tDist+tCheck+1 spl 2 , {17843 spl 1 , {18326 spl 1 , {13965 mov {tStart , tDist+tSplx+1 , tDist+tMov ; -- I think I got this from Katafutr tStep equ 16134 tTime equ 9241 tGate equ (tWipex-3) tCheck equ (tHit+23) ;tDist equ 9362 tDist equ 0; 100 ;25442 tWipex dat 1 , tClear+5-tGate tSplx spl #tStep+1 , tClear+5-tGate mov.i }tCheck , #0 tPtrx mov tHit-tTime*tStep , *tHit-(tTime-2)*tStep add tInc , tPtrx mov tSplx , *tPtrx mov }tCheck , @tPtrx tHit jmn.a tPtrx , {tCheck tInc spl #3*tStep , <3*tStep tClear mov *tWipex , >tGate mov *tWipex , >tGate djn.f tClear , }tSplx tMov mov -tStep , }-tStep ;for 5 ; dat 0, 0 ;rof b mov.i # target2, > 1 spl.i # 27723 + off, < 24071 + off ; 1 mov.i # 14697 + off, < 21365 + off ; 2 mov.i # 13135 + off, < 26769 + off ; 3 mov.i # 26113 + off, < 9150 + off ; 4 mov.i # 29291 + off, < 36914 + off ; 5 mov.i # 469 + off, < 11357 + off ; 6 mov.i # 20894 + off, < 7136 + off ; 7 mov.i # 50452 + off, < 9306 + off ; 8 mov.i # 45250 + off, < 40755 + off ; 9 mov.i # 30769 + off, < 51580 + off ; 10 mov.i # 17013 + off, < 1817 + off ; 11 mov.i # 29014 + off, < 30467 + off ; 12 mov.i # 52081 + off, < 2076 + off ; 13 mov.i # 12106 + off, < 584 + off ; 14 mov.i # 11941 + off, < 53165 + off ; 15 mov.i # 27499 + off, < 36531 + off ; 16 mov.i # 28170 + off, < 37223 + off ; 17 mov.i # 7661 + off, < 33809 + off ; 18 mov.i # 4766 + off, < 42223 + off ; 19 mov.i # 17315 + off, < 33701 + off ; 20 mov.i # 25455 + off, < 23898 + off ; 21 mov.i # 1439 + off, < 24670 + off ; 22 mov.i # 47464 + off, < 6877 + off ; 23 mov.i # 649 + off, < 28448 + off ; 24 mov.i # 34267 + off, < 44860 + off ; 25 mov.i # 33015 + off, < 50086 + off ; 26 mov.i # 38426 + off, < 33334 + off ; 27 mov.i # 13980 + off, < 20606 + off ; 28 mov.i # 23270 + off, < 5948 + off ; 29 mov.i # 27195 + off, < 14965 + off ; 30 mov.i # 25945 + off, < 33327 + off ; 31 mov.i # 38933 + off, < 40606 + off ; 32 mov.i # 49815 + off, < 10439 + off ; 33 mov.i # 53912 + off, < 41273 + off ; 34 mov.i # 27707 + off, < 12810 + off ; 35 mov.i # 32608 + off, < 15544 + off ; 36 mov.i # 30299 + off, < 24537 + off ; 37 mov.i # 35631 + off, < 27653 + off ; 38 mov.i # 22844 + off, < 18611 + off ; 39 mov.i # 38444 + off, < 25292 + off ; 40 mov.i # 34122 + off, < 9164 + off ; 41 mov.i # 40106 + off, < 55170 + off ; 42 mov.i # 18301 + off, < 28683 + off ; 43 mov.i # 43318 + off, < 21653 + off ; 44 mov.i # 3007 + off, < 11201 + off ; 45 mov.i # 31603 + off, < 8849 + off ; 46 mov.i # 15338 + off, < 21861 + off ; 47 mov.i # 14417 + off, < 48722 + off ; 48 mov.i # 25400 + off, < 13865 + off ; 49 mov.i # 54975 + off, < 10844 + off ; 50 mov.i # 13135 + off, < 44056 + off ; 51 mov.i # 48493 + off, < 8524 + off ; 52 mov.i # 10490 + off, < 16953 + off ; 53 mov.i # 3428 + off, < 27811 + off ; 54 mov.i # 47289 + off, < 29398 + off ; 55 mov.i # 44037 + off, < 35285 + off ; 56 mov.i # 49935 + off, < 37559 + off ; 57 mov.i # 5176 + off, < 18980 + off ; 58 mov.i # 7638 + off, < 13866 + off ; 59 mov.i # 46612 + off, < 49690 + off ; 60 mov.i # 8705 + off, < 39552 + off ; 61 mov.i # 37793 + off, < 17793 + off ; 62 mov.i # 25466 + off, < 19105 + off ; 63 mov.i # 23485 + off, < 514 + off ; 64 mov.i # 49559 + off, < 35416 + off ; 65 mov.i # 41630 + off, < 25237 + off ; 66 mov.i # 17131 + off, < 31224 + off ; 67 mov.i # 8499 + off, < 18464 + off ; 68 mov.i # 2764 + off, < 47850 + off ; 69 mov.i # 37862 + off, < 3343 + off ; 70 mov.i # 48428 + off, < 11113 + off ; 71 mov.i # 48566 + off, < 54809 + off ; 72 mov.i # 12498 + off, < 53184 + off ; 73 mov.i # 8508 + off, < 14819 + off ; 74 mov.i # 44393 + off, < 8221 + off ; 75 mov.i # 53429 + off, < 17267 + off ; 76 mov.i # 17398 + off, < 22020 + off ; 77 mov.i # 314 + off, < 30120 + off ; 78 mov.i # 15757 + off, < 18810 + off ; 79 mov.i # 795 + off, < 6853 + off ; 80 mov.i # 18526 + off, < 9597 + off ; 81 mov.i # 49251 + off, < 7553 + off ; 82 mov.i # 387 + off, < 34049 + off ; 83 mov.i # 34561 + off, < 53034 + off ; 84 mov.i # 35607 + off, < 5804 + off ; 85 mov.i # 43881 + off, < 36890 + off ; 86 mov.i # 54033 + off, < 37269 + off ; 87 mov.i # 39328 + off, < 32422 + off ; 88 mov.i # 9226 + off, < 43519 + off ; 89 mov.i # 11707 + off, < 24338 + off ; 90 mov.i # 11231 + off, < 23498 + off ; 91 mov.i # 27952 + off, < 13096 + off ; 92 mov.i # 51451 + off, < 24398 + off ; 93 mov.i # 8365 + off, < 8422 + off ; 94 mov.i # 29899 + off, < 21802 + off ; 95 mov.i # 36944 + off, < 39224 + off ; 96 mov.i # 52714 + off, < 50677 + off ; 97 mov.i # 5807 + off, < 37392 + off ; 98 mov.i # 15521 + off, < 24488 + off ; 99 mov.i # 45032 + off, < 51938 + off ; 100 mov.i # 40740 + off, < 6629 + off ; 101 mov.i # 52789 + off, < 19075 + off ; 102 mov.i # 25878 + off, < 5756 + off ; 103 mov.i # 7412 + off, < 30190 + off ; 104 mov.i # 13384 + off, < 21312 + off ; 105 mov.i # 36466 + off, < 47786 + off ; 106 mov.i # 28854 + off, < 20929 + off ; 107 mov.i # 55154 + off, < 25579 + off ; 108 mov.i # 36416 + off, < 15363 + off ; 109 mov.i # 43733 + off, < 17880 + off ; 110 mov.i # 4724 + off, < 43506 + off ; 111 mov.i # 54950 + off, < 36615 + off ; 112 mov.i # 42358 + off, < 22313 + off ; 113 mov.i # 54983 + off, < 36018 + off ; 114 mov.i # 34488 + off, < 3557 + off ; 115 mov.i # 25840 + off, < 25026 + off ; 116 mov.i # 15988 + off, < 50647 + off ; 117 mov.i # 51304 + off, < 49743 + off ; 118 mov.i # 43006 + off, < 36191 + off ; 119 mov.i # 37424 + off, < 54904 + off ; 120 mov.i # 36630 + off, < 20129 + off ; 121 mov.i # 35973 + off, < 28775 + off ; 122 mov.i # 50991 + off, < 8512 + off ; 123 mov.i # 35197 + off, < 6297 + off ; 124 mov.i # 26935 + off, < 14171 + off ; 125 From: Nathan F Russell Subject: Re: Security Information.....................................? . 7585 Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 16:46:25 -0400 Message-ID: <6oascts4c7ncume1aa5q28khn11o96fr5r@4ax.com> copkdp@privacy5.com wrote: >http://www.evidence-eliminator.com/go.shtml?A657156 Does anyone know how much these people are being paid to promote evidence eliminator? Nathan From: "Paul Khuong" Subject: RE: Sad newbie attempt at an Imp Bomb Date: 6 Apr 2001 23:31:28 -0400 Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: corewar-l@koth.org [mailto:corewar-l@koth.org]On Behalf Of Lukasz > Adamowski > Sent: 6 avril, 2001 10:29 > To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L > Subject: Re: Sad newbie attempt at an Imp Bomb [snip] > And here is one of my ideas: > > MOV #4, $0 > MOV <-1, <103 > JMN $-1, $-2 > JMP @101 > > Can you understand it, Snitty? IIRC, it's Smitty 8) Anyway, it's pretty cute! It could probably be used in the lp hill... ::thinks:: [Insert maniacal laugh] 8) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From: Lukasz Adamowski Subject: Re: Help with optimization Date: 6 Apr 2001 23:31:25 -0400 Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Apr 2001, Curious Forestweaver wrote: > On 2001.04.04 11:32 MACSNITKOFF wrote: > > I now have a dwarf throwing dwarf, > > If you'll excuse this slightly off topic comment, this sounds like > a great idea for a Olympic demonstration sport. > > Bryn. > -- Dwarf Dwarf Tossing. :)))))))) [rolling on the floor] YES! That's the funniest thing I heard for a week! :)))))))) Lukasz PS I wonder how far can be dwarf throwen? :) From: "Paul Khuong" Subject: RE: Help with optimization Date: 6 Apr 2001 23:31:21 -0400 Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: corewar-l@koth.org [mailto:corewar-l@koth.org]On Behalf Of > birk@andromeda.ociw.edu > Sent: 6 avril, 2001 10:29 > To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L > Subject: Re: Help with optimization > > > MACSNITKOFF wrote: > > Hey, you may remember me. . . I now have a dwarf throwing dwarf > > [...] > > ;redcode-94 > > ;name DwarfBomb > > [...] > > I think this is as close as possible to your original idea. I hope > the comments I added explain the changes: Actually, not quite 8) here's how i'd do it: ;redcode-94 ;name DwarfBomb (v2) ;author Ben Snitkoff ;stategy Dwarf throwing dwarf ;strategy [PVK] Actually, it's more like a warrior that spawns tons of stones, since the "main" part isnt a dwarf. Anyway... ;assert 1 org main bomb: DAT #12, #-12 ;You could use antoher stepsize...3044, fe. dwarf: ADD bomb, 1 ; move here from after 'jmp dwarf' (CCB) MOV bomb, 6 JMP dwarf ; in most warriors, this would be a djn, but then, ;most warriors also have a spl 0 on the top of the loop... you could still do it, though main: ADD #800-3, $ptr ; changed to '$' from '@' (CCB) [PVK] Changed the step so ;the loop rolls perfectly around the core(the ">" change the value of ptr's b-field too) MOV bomb, >ptr ; changed to '>' from '@' (CCB) MOV bomb+1, >ptr ; changed 'dwarf' to 'bomb' (CCB) MOV bomb+2, >ptr MOV bomb+3, >ptr SPL ;redcode-94 > ;name DwarfBomb (v2) > ;author Ben Snitkoff > ;stategy Dwarf throwing dwarf > ;assert 1 > > org main > > bomb: DAT #33, #33 ; move here from after 'jmp dwarf' (CCB) > dwarf: ADD #12, 2 > SUB #12, 2 > MOV bomb, 6 > MOV bomb, 6 > JMP dwarf > > > main: ADD #800, $ptr ; changed to '$' from '@' (CCB) > ptr: NOP #0, 8 ; changed from DAT (CCB) > MOV bomb, >ptr ; changed to '>' from '@' (CCB) > MOV bomb+1, >ptr ; changed 'dwarf' to 'bomb' (CCB) > MOV bomb+2, >ptr > MOV bomb+3, >ptr > MOV bomb+4, >ptr > MOV bomb+5, >ptr > SPL JMP main > > end > > Christoph _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From: "Benjamin Ford" Subject: Re: Experimental Hill Date: 6 Apr 2001 23:37:37 -0400 Message-ID: From: Lukasz Adamowski >I've found on standing list of '94 Experimental Hill, that "Hold still a >minute... Thanks" by Dave Hillis earned 100% of points fighting against >itself. Interesting... I guess it's a small trick with PIN, am I right, >Dave? If not, how is it possible? > Lukasz >From the startegy lines, I'd assume its one of those F-number warriors. As such, its designed so that whichever warrior is first on the command line (ie whichever warrior is located at 0 in core) wins all the time. And with 200 length for warriors, its possible to store the F-numbers for every round by using the a and b fields. Or it could be using handshaking which is described in an issue of Core Warrior. Basically uses p-space to run a MAXCYCLES-100 wait on the first round. If it surives the wait, it assumes that its a self-fight and sets up to have one warrior win every subsequent round, otherwise switches off into normal mode. No PIN tricks needed. -Ben _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From: "Robert Macrae" Subject: Re: Experimental Hill Date: 7 Apr 2001 17:20:57 -0400 Message-ID: <002601c0bf2f$2b6e7040$2100a8c0@HomePC> > I've found on standing list of '94 Experimental Hill, that "Hold still a > minute... Thanks" by Dave Hillis earned 100% of points fighting against > itself. Interesting... I guess it's a small trick with PIN, am I right, > Dave? If not, how is it possible? An old trick of mine AFAIK -- see BigBoy from NSFCWT. You can clean up the code massively using a modern P-switcher, but I've never developed a new main warrior to match. As the constants in "Dying to know" look kind of familiar, I suspect the original code lives on 8-) I felt terribly guilty about using this in a competition, and I still think self-fights should not really be allowed. At best they are a waste of processing, and at worst they reward fixers rather than honest warriors. Robert Macrae From: "tmp" Subject: Re: Experimental Hill Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 21:40:57 +0100 Message-ID: <9aps6f$kih$1@uranium.btinternet.com> > Or it could be using handshaking which is described in an issue of Core > Warrior. Basically uses p-space to run a MAXCYCLES-100 wait on the > round. If it surives the wait, it assumes that its a self-fight and > to have one warrior win every subsequent round, otherwise switches off > normal mode. No PIN tricks needed. Bigboy suicided very quickly on the first round, and if it won the first round it assumed it was facing a copy of itself to which it should lose. Of course, both variants are vulnerable to exploitation 8-) Robert From: "Paul Khuong" Subject: RE: Constants etc. Date: 7 Apr 2001 22:58:25 -0400 Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: corewar-l@koth.org [mailto:corewar-l@koth.org]On Behalf Of Sascha > Zapf > Sent: 7 avril, 2001 19:33 > To: Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L > Subject: Constants etc. > > > Hi, there > > i'm trying to make a paper that throws stun bombs. > > It was poorly against the Wilkies and Wilmoos Warriors..But then i've > played with the contants, and surpising me, it fight some % more wins > against the two groups of Warriors. It was not so good to send it to the > Hill, but nice. > > Now my question: How can i know that the Warrior is good, but the > constants are bad. Is there a easy way to test the same Warrior with > different constants. I know that there are Programms that calculate some > constants for me, but how can i test them in a Warrior without > cut'n'copy hundred of Warriors. Well, if you only want tp see if the warrior is any good, just send it here, and we'll try to help you. Now, to simply try evry constant possible(which IS a good approach 8), you'd want some a-life program...Like, an evolutionnary, like someone tried in the last tourney, iirc. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From: Sascha Zapf Subject: Constants etc. Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 00:27:30 +0200 Message-ID: <3ACF9451.D92EE92A@netcologne.de> Hi, there i'm trying to make a paper that throws stun bombs. It was poorly against the Wilkies and Wilmoos Warriors..But then i've played with the contants, and surpising me, it fight some % more wins against the two groups of Warriors. It was not so good to send it to the Hill, but nice. Now my question: How can i know that the Warrior is good, but the constants are bad. Is there a easy way to test the same Warrior with different constants. I know that there are Programms that calculate some constants for me, but how can i test them in a Warrior without cut'n'copy hundred of Warriors. Sascha From: "Benjamin Ford" Subject: Re: Experimental Hill Date: 8 Apr 2001 12:35:22 -0400 Message-ID: From: "tmp" > > Or it could be using handshaking which is described in an issue of > Core > > Warrior. Basically uses p-space to run a MAXCYCLES-100 wait on the > > round. If it surives the wait, it assumes that its a self-fight and > > to have one warrior win every subsequent round, otherwise switches > off > > normal mode. No PIN tricks needed. > > Bigboy suicided very quickly on the first round, and if it won the > first > round it assumed it was facing a copy of itself to which it should > lose. > > Of course, both variants are vulnerable to exploitation 8-) > > Robert Yeah, but that method loses the first two rounds against something not trying to handshake. This method, presented in CW68, only loses the first round and non-handshakers. Ben From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - 94 No Pspace 04/09/01 Date: 9 Apr 2001 00:07:02 -0400 Message-ID: <200104090400.AAA13088@gevjon.ttsg.com> Weekly Status on 04/09/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG 94 No Pspace CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Sun Apr 8 20:03:59 EDT 2001 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 34/ 19/ 47 Son of Vain Oversby/Pihlaja 149 38 2 41/ 39/ 20 Behemot Michal Janeczek 143 272 3 30/ 18/ 52 nPaper II Paul-V Khuong 142 449 4 41/ 41/ 18 Eraser II Ken Espiritu 141 406 5 33/ 26/ 42 Quicksilver Michal Janeczek 140 211 6 32/ 24/ 44 Olivia Ben Ford 140 177 7 40/ 42/ 18 Jinx Christian Schmidt 138 412 8 23/ 9/ 68 The Phantom Menace Anton Marsden 137 149 9 34/ 32/ 33 Blacken Ian Oversby 136 696 10 40/ 44/ 16 G2-b David Moore 135 235 11 30/ 27/ 43 Uninvited John Metcalf 134 131 12 41/ 48/ 11 Kenshin Steve Gunnell 134 39 13 34/ 35/ 31 Keyser Soze Anton Marsden 133 150 14 31/ 29/ 41 Velvet Fist Ayan Chakrabarti 132 21 15 28/ 24/ 48 Brigadeer M Joonas Pihlaja 132 42 16 28/ 26/ 46 Jade Ben Ford 130 518 17 28/ 29/ 43 Yesterday's Scream a P.Kline 126 1 18 37/ 49/ 14 Toofan Ayan Chakrabarti 126 67 19 29/ 47/ 24 rTest P.Kline 110 2 20 18/ 43/ 39 Disaster Area 3.2 Stefan Foerster 94 18 21 2/ 2/ 2 Yesterday's Scream P.Kline 6 4 From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - Standard 04/09/01 Date: 9 Apr 2001 00:07:06 -0400 Message-ID: <200104090400.AAA13076@gevjon.ttsg.com> Weekly Status on 04/09/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG Standard KotH CoreWar Hill : Last battle concluded at : Wed Mar 14 00:59:01 EST 2001 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 33/ 22/ 45 Freight Train David Moore 145 74 2 33/ 22/ 45 sIMPly.Red v0.95 Leonardo Humberto 144 31 3 32/ 22/ 46 Test Alexander (Sasha) Wa 142 13 4 31/ 22/ 47 Guardian Ian Oversby 139 73 5 36/ 36/ 28 PacMan David Moore 137 103 6 37/ 39/ 24 Stasis David Moore 136 181 7 25/ 17/ 58 EV Paper John K Wilkinson 133 87 8 38/ 46/ 16 Foggy Swamp Beppe Bezzi 131 70 9 27/ 23/ 50 Shish-Ka-Bob Ben Ford 131 29 10 38/ 46/ 16 Blur '88 Anton Marsden 130 111 11 35/ 42/ 23 Beholder's Eye V1.7 W. Mintardjo 129 349 12 25/ 20/ 55 Test I Ian Oversby 129 130 13 34/ 39/ 27 Tangle Trap David Moore 128 147 14 25/ 22/ 53 sic Leonardo H. Liporati 128 3 15 30/ 33/ 37 Frog Sticker P.Kline 127 23 16 25/ 22/ 53 Evoltmp 88 John K W 127 124 17 15/ 4/ 81 ]enigma[ Michal Janeczek 127 2 18 37/ 47/ 16 Iron Gate Wayne Sheppard 126 399 19 32/ 39/ 28 Stillborn Bomber v0.2 mjp 126 14 20 37/ 49/ 15 ig Wayne Sheppard 125 1 21 35/ 51/ 14 Blurstone '88 M. J. Pihlaja 119 68 From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - ICWS Experimental 94 04/09/01 Date: 9 Apr 2001 00:07:09 -0400 Message-ID: <200104090400.AAA13084@gevjon.ttsg.com> Weekly Status on 04/09/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG ICWS Experimental 94 CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Sun Apr 8 20:13:43 EDT 2001 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 70/ 22/ 8 Hold still a minute...Tha Dave Hillis 219 2 2 36/ 21/ 43 KAT v5 Dave Hillis 151 10 3 42/ 34/ 24 Black Moods Ian Oversby 149 74 4 44/ 40/ 16 Greetings From Asbury Par JKW 148 38 5 36/ 31/ 33 Controlled Aggression Ian Oversby 140 78 6 32/ 28/ 41 Damage Inflicted Robert Macrae 135 17 7 28/ 21/ 51 Katafutr Michal Janeczek 135 18 8 35/ 38/ 27 Ogre Christian Schmidt 133 26 9 18/ 4/ 77 Black Box v1.1 JKW 132 41 10 21/ 10/ 70 Evol Cap 4 X John Wilkinson 132 147 11 30/ 32/ 37 Big I.F.F.S. Dave Hillis 128 7 12 28/ 31/ 42 Disaster Area 2.10 Stefan Foerster 125 4 13 20/ 15/ 65 Denial David Moore 125 19 14 25/ 25/ 50 Venom v0.2b Christian Schmidt 124 100 15 33/ 43/ 23 Pagan John K W 124 132 16 25/ 28/ 47 Disaster Area 2.8 Stefan Foerster 123 5 17 16/ 12/ 72 Evolve X v4.0 John Wilkinson 121 95 18 28/ 37/ 35 test CS 118 35 19 20/ 25/ 55 Purple v0.1 Christian Schmidt 115 99 20 9/ 83/ 8 Disabuse Dave Hillis 35 1 21 4/ 1/ 0 Aster v0 Dave Hillis 11 6 From: Sascha Zapf Subject: Pizza Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:55:40 +0200 Message-ID: <3AD3734C.EB20E238@netcologne.de> Hi all, i've just Submitted my first Warrior to the Pizza's Beginner's Hill... I want only a test, so my Redcode-Line looks like ;redcode-94b test But i'm in the Holding Pen with 35 other Warriors.. Where can i see when the next Challenge is.. Sascha Subject: Submitting to Servers From: MACSNITKOFF Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:56:24 GMT Hmm, on second thought that subject sounds kinda kinky. . . Anyway, I was wondering how you go about sending a warrior to a server, so it can one day get it's ass kicked in a battle? Thanks Ben From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_F=F6rster?= Subject: Re: Pizza Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 06:57:55 +0200 Message-ID: <986965069.700546@bau2.a-city.de> Hi Sascha, at the moment the pizza hills are VERY SLOOOW. They were down for about two weeks. Since Monday one gets replies again, but the holding pen is long. One of my warriors I had sent in two weeks ago was processed yesterday. The challenge usually takes place within hours. But at the moment - nobody knows. Wait and see... Tsch=FC=DF, Stefan. --=20 Stefan Foerster http://home.a-city.de/stefan.foerster Quote of the Day: In sports, those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Mark H. McCormack, On Communicating (p. 31) (created at stardate [-30]6465.9825, Wed Apr 11 06:42:59 2001) "Sascha Zapf" schrieb im Newsbeitrag = news:3AD3734C.EB20E238@netcologne.de... > Hi all, >=20 > i've just Submitted my first Warrior to the Pizza's Beginner's Hill... > I want only a test, so my Redcode-Line looks like >=20 > ;redcode-94b test >=20 > But i'm in the Holding Pen with 35 other Warriors.. >=20 > Where can i see when the next Challenge is.. >=20 > Sascha From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_F=F6rster?= Subject: Re: Submitting to Servers Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 07:07:04 +0200 Message-ID: <986965618.521192@bau2.a-city.de> Hi Ben, just go to the corresponding web sites and read the manual, since every site has different hills and demands a little bit different syntax. Some hints: Hills (with ICWS94 standard) on koth.org: Send to koth@koth.org with no subject First line of your warrior: ;redcode-94nop -> No Pspace Hill ;redcode-94x -> Experimental Hill ;redcode-94m -> Multiwarrior Hill ;redcode-94xm -> Experimental Multiwarrior Hill Add "verbose" to the redcode line to get info every time a battle is fought (even if the other warrior gets pushed off the hill immediately.) Your warrior has to include a assert line to assert that it can run under the conditions of specific hills, like ;assert (MAXLENGTH>=3D100) && (CORESIZE>=3D8000) or simply ;assert 1 Hills on Pizza (ICWS 94) www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~pizza/koth : Send to pizza@ecst.csuchico.edu with "koth" as subject ;redcode-b -> beginner hill ;redcode-94 -> normal hill with pspace ;redcode-94x -> experimental (tiny) hill You can add "test" to the redcode line to be entered into the test challenge only so you get "as-if results" only. I hope this helps, Stefan. --=20 Stefan Foerster http://home.a-city.de/stefan.foerster Quote of the Day: In sports, those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Mark H. McCormack, On Communicating (p. 31) (created at stardate [-30]6465.9825, Wed Apr 11 06:42:59 2001) "MACSNITKOFF" schrieb im Newsbeitrag = news:B6F90863.6AE%snitty@mac.com... > Hmm, on second thought that subject sounds kinda kinky. . . >=20 > Anyway, I was wondering how you go about sending a warrior to a = server, so > it can one day get it's ass kicked in a battle? >=20 > Thanks >=20 > Ben >=20 From: pak21@cam.ac.uk (Philip Kendall) Subject: Re: Submitting to Servers Date: 11 Apr 2001 09:39:42 +0100 Message-ID: <9b158e$h3a$1@kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk> In article , MACSNITKOFF wrote: > >Anyway, I was wondering how you go about sending a warrior to a server, so >it can one day get it's ass kicked in a battle? http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~pak21/corewar/submit.html However, Pizza ( pizza@ecst.csuchico.edu ) is currently suffering problems, so you probably won't get any responses of it for a while :-( HTH, Phil -- Philip Kendall http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~pak21/ -- Philip Kendall http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~pak21/ From: "Benjamin Ford" Subject: Re: Pizza Date: 11 Apr 2001 14:03:15 -0400 Message-ID: Sometimes pizza gets stuck. Email the guy who maintains the site (the email is on the page) and ask him to restart it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sascha Zapf" To: "Multiple recipients of list COREWAR-L" Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 4:35 PM Subject: Pizza > Hi all, > > i've just Submitted my first Warrior to the Pizza's Beginner's Hill... > I want only a test, so my Redcode-Line looks like > > ;redcode-94b test > > But i'm in the Holding Pen with 35 other Warriors.. > > Where can i see when the next Challenge is.. > > Sascha > Message-ID: From: anton@paradise.net.nz (Anton Marsden) Subject: Core War Frequently Asked Questions (rec.games.corewar FAQ) Date: 16 Apr 2001 04:35:57 GMT Archive-name: games/corewar-faq Last-Modified: September 4, 1999 Version: 4.2 URL: http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~anton/cw/corewar-faq.html Copyright: (c) 1999 Anton Marsden Maintainer: Anton Marsden Posting-Frequency: once every 2 weeks Core War Frequently Asked Questions (rec.games.corewar FAQ) These are the Frequently Asked Questions (and answers) from the Usenet newsgroup rec.games.corewar. A plain text version of this document is posted every two weeks. The latest hypertext version is available at http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~anton/cw/corewar-faq.html and the latest plain text version is available at http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~anton/cw/corewar-faq.txt. This document is currently being maintained by Anton Marsden (anton@paradise.net.nz). Last modified: Sat Sep 4 00:22:22 NZST 1999 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To Do * Add the new No-PSpace '94 hill location * Add online location of Dewdney's articles * Make question 17 easier to understand. Add a state diagram? * Add info about infinite hills, related games (C-Robots, Tierra?, ...) * New question: How do I know if my warrior is any good? Refer to beginners' benchmarks, etc. * Add a Who's Who list? * Would very much like someone to compile a collection of the "revolutionary" warriors so that beginners can see how the game has developed over the years. Mail me if interested. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's New * Changed primary location of FAQ (again!) * Changed Philip Kendall's home page address. * Updated list server information * Changed primary location of FAQ * Vector-launching code was fixed thanks to Ting Hsu. * Changed the location of Ryan Coleman's paper (LaunchPad -> Launchpad) * Changed pauillac.inria.fr to para.inria.fr ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Table of Contents 1. What is Core War 2. Is it "Core War" or "Core Wars"? 3. Where can I find more information about Core War? 4. Core War has changed since Dewdney's articles. Where do I get a copy of the current instruction set? 5. What is ICWS'94? Which simulators support ICWS'94? 6. What is the ICWS? 7. What is Core Warrior? 8. Where are the Core War archives? 9. Where can I find a Core War system for ...? 10. Where can I find warrior code? 11. I do not have FTP. How do I get all this great stuff? 12. I do not have access to Usenet. How do I post and receive news? 13. Are there any Core War related WWW sites? 14. What is KotH? How do I enter? 15. Is it DAT 0, 0 or DAT #0, #0? How do I compare to core? 16. How does SLT (Skip if Less Than) work? 17. What is the difference between in-register and in-memory evaluation? 18. What is P-space? 19. What does "Missing ;assert .." in my message from KotH mean? 20. How should I format my code? 21. Are there any other Core War related resources I should know about? 22. What does (expression or term of your choice) mean? 23. Other questions? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1. What is Core War? Core War is a game played by two or more programs (and vicariously by their authors) written in an assembly language called Redcode and run in a virtual computer called MARS (for Memory Array Redcode Simulator). The object of the game is to cause all processes of the opposing program to terminate, leaving your program in sole posession of the machine. There are Core War systems available for most computer platforms. Redcode has been standardised by the ICWS, and is therefore transportable between all standard Core War systems. The system in which the programs run is quite simple. The core (the memory of the simulated computer) is a continuous array of instructions, empty except for the competing programs. The core wraps around, so that after the last instruction comes the first one again. There are no absolute addresses in Core War. That is, the address 0 doesn't mean the first instruction in the memory, but the instruction that contains the address 0. The next instruction is 1, and the previous one obviously -1. However, all numbers are treated as positive, and are in the range 0 to CORESIZE-1 where CORESIZE is the amount of memory locations in the core - this means that -1 would be treated as CORESIZE-1 in any arithmetic operations, eg. 3218 + 7856 = (3218 + 7856) mod CORESIZE. Many people get confused by this, and it is particularly important when using the SLT instruction. Note that the source code of a program can still contain negative numbers, but if you start using instructions like DIV #-2, #5 it is important to know what effect they will have when executed. The basic unit of memory in Core War is one instruction. Each Redcode instruction contains three parts: * the opcode * the source address (a.k.a. the A-field) * the destination address (a.k.a. the B-field) The execution of the programs is equally simple. The MARS executes one instruction at a time, and then proceeds to the next one in the memory, unless the instruction explicitly tells it to jump to another address. If there is more than one program running, (as is usual) the programs execute alternately, one instruction at a time. The execution of each instruction takes the same time, one cycle, whether it is MOV, DIV or even DAT (which kills the process). Each program may have several processes running. These processes are stored in a task queue. When it is the program's turn to execute an instruction it dequeues a process and executes the corresponding instruction. Processes that are not killed during the execution of the instruction are put back into the task queue. Processes created by a SPL instruction are added to the task queue after the creating process is put back into the task queue. [ToC] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 2. Is it "Core War" or "Core Wars"? Both terms are used. Early references were to Core War. Later references seem to use Core Wars. I prefer "Core War" to refer to the game in general, "core wars" to refer to more than one specific battle. [ToC] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 3. Where can I find more information about Core War? Core War was first described in the Core War Guidelines of March, 1984 by D. G. Jones and A. K. Dewdney of the Department of Computer Science at The University of Western Ontario (Canada). Dewdney wrote several "Computer Recreations" articles in Scientific American which discussed Core War, starting with the May 1984 article. Those articles are contained in two anthologies: Library of Author Title Published ISBN Congress Call Number The Armchair Dewdney, Universe: An New York: W. QA76.6 .D517 A. K. Exploration of H. Freeman �0-7167-1939-8 1988 Computer Worlds 1988 The Magic 0-7167-2125-2 Dewdney, Machine: A New York: W.(Hardcover), QA76.6 A. K. Handbook of H. Freeman �0-7167-2144-9 .D5173 1990 Computer Sorcery 1990 (Paperback) A.K. Dewdney's articles are still the most readable introduction to Core War, even though the Redcode dialect described in there is no longer current. For those who are interested, Dewdney has a home page at http://www.csd.uwo.ca/faculty/akd/. [ToC] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 4. Core War has changed since Dewdney's articles. Where do I get a copy of the current instruction set? A draft of the official standard (ICWS'88) is available as ftp://www.koth.org/corewar/documents/standards/redcode-icws-88.Z. This document is formatted awkwardly and contains ambiguous statements. For a more approachable intro to Redcode, take a look at Mark Durham's tutorials, ftp://www.koth.org/corewar/documents/tutorial.1.Z and ftp://www.koth.org/corewar/documents/tutorial.2.Z. Steven Morrell has prepared a more practically oriented Redcode tutorial that discusses different warrior classes with lots of example code. This and various other tutorials can be found at http://www.koth.org/papers.html. Even though ICWS'88 is still the "official" standard, you will find that most people are playing by ICWS'94 draft rules and extensions. [ToC] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 5. What is ICWS'94? Which simulators support ICWS'94? There is an ongoing discussion about future enhancements to the Redcode language. A proposed new standard, dubbed ICWS'94, is currently being evaluated. A major change is the addition of "instruction modifiers" that allow instructions to modify A-field, B-field or both. Also new is a new addressing modes and unrestricted opcode and addressing mode combination ("no illegal instructions"). ICWS'94 is backwards compatible; i.e. ICWS'88 warriors will run correctly on an ICWS'94 system. Take a look at the ICWS'94 draft at ftp://www.koth.org/corewar/documents/icws94.0202.Z for more information. There is a HTML version of this document available at http://www.koth.org/info/icws94.html. You can try out the new standard by submitting warriors to the '94 hills of the KotH servers. Two corewar systems currently support ICWS'94, pMARS (many platforms) and Redcoder (Mac), both available at ftp://www.koth.org/corewar. Note that Redcoder only supports a subset of ICWS'94. [ToC] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 6. What is the ICWS? About one year after Core War first appeared in Scientific American, the "International Core War Society" (ICWS) was established. Since that time, the ICWS has been responsible for the creation and maintenance of Core War standards and the running of Core War tournaments. There have been six annual tournaments and two standards (ICWS'86 and ICWS'88). The ICWS is no longer active. [ToC] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 7. What is Core Warrior? Following in the tradition of the Core War News Letter, Push Off, and The 94 Warrior, Core Warrior is a newsletter about strategies and current standings in Core War. Started in October 1995, back issues of Core Warrior (and the other newsletters) are available at http://para.inria.fr/~doligez/corewar/. There is also a Core Warrior index page at http://www.kendalls.demon.co.uk/pak21/corewar/warrior.html which has a summary of the contents of each issue of Core Warrior. Many of the earlier issues contain useful information for beginners. [ToC] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 8. Where are the Core War archives? Many documents such as the guidelines and the ICWS standards along with previous tournament Redcode entries and complete Core War systems are available via anonymous ftp from ftp://ftp.csua.berkeley.edu/pub/corewar. Also, most of past rec.games.corewar postings (including Redcode source listings) are archived there. Jon Blow (blojo@csua.berkeley.edu) is the archive administrator. When uploading to /pub/corewar/incoming, ask Jon to move your upload to the appropriate directory and announce it on the net. This site is mirrored at: * http://www.koth.org/corewar/ * ftp://www.koth.org/corewar/ * ftp://ftp.inria.fr/INRIA/Projects/para/doligez/cw/mirror The plain text version of this FAQ is automatically archived by news.answers (but this version is probably out-of-date). [ToC] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 9. Where can I find a Core War system for . . . ? Core War systems are available via anonymous FTP from www.koth.org in the corewar/systems directory. Currently, there are UNIX, IBM PC-compatible, Macintosh, and Amiga Core War systems available there. It is a good idea to check ftp://www.koth.org/corewar/incoming for program updates first. CAUTION! There are many, many Core War systems available which are NOT ICWS'88 (or even ICWS'86) compatible available at various archive sites other than www.koth.org. Generally, the older the program - the less likely it will be ICWS compatible. If you are looking for an ICWS'94 simulator, get pMARS, which is available for many platforms and can be downloaded from: * ftp://ftp.csua.berkeley.edu/pub/corewar (original site) * ftp://www.koth.org/corewar (koth.org mirror) * ftp://ftp.inria.fr/INRIA/Projects/para/doligez/cw/mirror (Planar mirror) * http://www.nc5.infi.net/~wtnewton/corewar/ (Terry Newton) * ftp://members.aol.com/ofechner/corewar (Fechter) Notes: * If you have trouble running pMARS with a graphical display under Win95 then check out http://www.koth.org/pmars.html which should have a pointer to the latest compilation of pMARS for this environment. * RPMs for the Alpha, PowerPC, Sparc and i386 can be found at ftp://ftp.inria.fr/INRIA/Projects/para/doligez/cw/pmars-rpm/ Reviews of Core War systems would be greatly appreciated in the newsgroup and in the newsletter. Below is a not necessarily complete or up-to-date list of what's available at www.koth.org: MADgic41.lzh corewar for the Amiga, v4.1 MAD4041.lzh older version? MAD50B.lha corewar for the Amiga, beta version 5.0 Redcoder-21.hqx corewar for the Mac, supports ICWS'88 and '94 (without extensions) core-11.hqx corewar for the Mac core-wars-simulator.hqx same as core-11.hqx? corewar_unix_x11.tar.Z corewar for UNIX/X-windows, ICWS'86 but not ICWS'88 compatible koth31.tar.Z corewar for UNIX/X-windows. This program ran the former KotH server at intel.com koth.shar.Z older version kothpc.zip port of older version of KotH to the PC deluxe20c.tar.Z corewar for UNIX (broken X-windows or curses) and PC mars.tar.Z corewar for UNIX, likely not ICWS'88 compatible icons.zip corewar icons for MS-Windows macrored.zip a redcode macro-preprocessor (PC) c88v49.zip PC corewar, textmode display mars88.zip PC corewar, graphics mode display corwp302.zip PC corewar, textmode display, slowish mercury2.zip PC corewar written in assembly, fast! mtourn11.zip tournament scheduler for mercury (req. 4DOS) pmars08s.zip portable system, ICWS'88 and '94, runs on UNIX, PC, Mac, Amiga. C source archive pmars08s.tar.Z same as above pmars08.zip PC executables with graphics display, req 386+ macpmars02.sit.hqx pMARS executable for Mac (port of version 0.2) buggy, no display MacpMARS1.99a.cpt.hqx port of v0.8 for the Mac, with display and debugger MacpMARS1.0s.cpt.hqx C source (MPW, ThinkC) for Mac frontend pvms08.zip pMARS v0.8 for VMS build files/help (req. pmars08s.zip) ApMARS03.lha pMARS executable for Amiga (port of version 0.3.1) wincor11.zip MS-Windows system, shareware ($15) [ToC] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 10. Where can I find warrior code? To learn the game, it is a good idea to study previously posted warrior code. The FTP archives have code in the ftp://www.koth.org/corewar/redcode directory. A clearly organized on-line warrior collection is available at the Core War web sites (see below). [ToC] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 11. I do not have FTP. How do I get all this great stuff? There is an FTP email server at bitftp@pucc.princeton.edu. This address may no longer exist. I haven't tested it yet. Send email with a subject and body text of "help" (without the quotes) for more information on its usage. Note that many FTP email gateways are shutting down due to abuse. To get a current list of FTP email servers, look at the Accessing the Internet by E-mail FAQ posted to news.answers. If you don't have access to Usenet, you can retrieve this FAQ one of the following ways: * Send mail to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with the body containing "send usenet/news.answers/internet-services/access-via-email". * Send mail to mailbase@mailbase.ac.uk with the body containing "send lis-iis e-access-inet.txt". [ToC] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 12. I do not have access to Usenet. How do I post and receive news? To receive rec.games.corewar articles by email, join the COREWAR-L list run on the Koth.Org list processor. To join, send the message SUB COREWAR-L FirstName LastName to listproc@koth.org. You can send mail to corewar-l@koth.org to post even if you are not a member of the list. Responsible for the listserver is Scott J. Ellentuch (ttsg@ttsg.com). Servers that allow you to post (but not receive) articles are available. Refer to the Accessing the Internet by E-Mail FAQ for more information. [ToC] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 13. Are there any Core War related WWW sites? You bet. Each of the two KotH sites sport a world-wide web server. Stormking's Core War page is http://www.koth.org; pizza's is http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~pizza/koth . Damien Doligez (a.k.a. Planar) has a web page that features convenient access to regular newsletters (Push Off, The '94 Warrior, Core Warrior) and a well organized library of warriors: http://para.inria.fr/~doligez/corewar/. Convenient for U.S. users, this site is also mirrored at koth.org. [ToC] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 14. What is KotH? How do I enter? King Of The Hill (KotH) is an ongoing Core War tournament available to anyone with email. You enter by submitting via email a Redcode program (warrior) with special comment lines. You will receive a reply indicating how well your program did against the current top programs "on the hill". There are two styles of KotH tournaments, "classical" and "multi-warrior". The "classical" KotH is a one-on-one tournament, that is your warrior will play 100 battles against each of the 20 other programs currently on the Hill. You receive 3 points for each win and 1 point for each tie. (The existing programs do not replay each other, but their previous battles are recalled.) All scores are updated to reflect your battles and all 21 programs are ranked from high to low. If you are number 21 you are pushed off the Hill, if you are higher than 21 someone else is pushed off. In "multi-warrior" KotH, all warriors on the hill fight each other at the same time. Score calculation is a bit more complex than for the one-on-one tournament. Briefly, points are awarded based on how many warriors survive until the end of a round. A warrior that survives by itself gets more points than a warrior that survives together with other warriors. Points are calculated from the formula (W*W-1)/S, where W is the total number of warriors and S the number of surviving warriors. The pMARS documentation has more information on multi-warrior scoring. The idea for an email-based Core War server came from David Lee. The original KotH was developed and run by William Shubert at Intel starting in 1991, and discontinued after almost three years of service. Currently, KotHs based on Bill's UNIX scripts but offering a wider variety of hills are are running at two sites: koth@koth.org is maintained by Scott J. Ellentuch (tuc@ttsg.com) and pizza@ecst.csuchico.edu by Thomas H. Davies (sd@ecst.csuchico.edu). Up until May '95, the two sites provided overlapping services, i.e. the some of the hill types were offered by both "pizza" and "stormking". To conserve resources, the different hill types are now divided up among the sites. The way you submit warriors to both KotHs is pretty much the same. Therefore, the entry rules described below apply to both "pizza" and "stormking" unless otherwise noted. Entry Rules for King of the Hill Corewar * Write a corewar program. KotH is fully ICWS '88 compatible, EXCEPT that a comma (",") is required between two arguments. * Put a line starting with ";redcode" (or ";redcode-94", etc., see below) at the top of your program. This MUST be the first line. Anything before it will be lost. If you wish to receive mail on every new entrant, use ";redcode verbose". Otherwise you will only receive mail if a challenger makes it onto the hill. Use ";redcode quiet" if you wish to receive mail only when you get shoved off the hill. Additionally, adding ";name " and ";author " will be helpful in the performance reports. Do NOT have a line beginning with ";address" in your code; this will confuse the mail daemon and you won't get mail back. Using ";name" is mandatory on the Pizza hills. In addition, it would be nice if you have lines beginning with ";strategy" that describe the algorithm you use. There are currently seven separate hills you can select by starting your program with ;redcode-94, ;redcode-b, ;redcode-lp, ;redcode-x, ;redcode, ;redcode-94x or ;redcode-94m. The former four run at "pizza", the latter three at "stormking". More information on these hills is listed below. * Mail this file to koth@koth.org or pizza@ecst.csuchico.edu. "Pizza" requires a subject of "koth" (use the -s flag on most mailers). * Within a few minutes you should get mail back telling you whether your program assembled correctly or not. If it did assemble correctly, sit back and wait; if not, make the change required and re-submit. * In an hour or so you should get more mail telling you how your program performed against the current top 20 (or 10) programs. If no news arrives during that time, don't worry; entries are put in a queue and run through the tournament one at a time. A backlog may develop. Be patient. If your program makes it onto the hill, you will get mail every time a new program makes it onto the hill. If this is too much mail, you can use ";redcode[-??] quiet" when you first mail in your program; then you will only get mail when you make it on the top 25 list or when you are knocked off. Using ";redcode[-??] verbose" will give you even more mail; here you get mail every time a new challenger arrives, even if they don't make it onto the top 25 list. Often programmers want to try out slight variations in their programs. If you already have a program named "foo V1.0" on the hill, adding the line ";kill foo" to a new program will automatically bump foo 1.0 off the hill. Just ";kill" will remove all of your programs when you submit the new one. The server kills programs by assigning an impossibly low score; it may therefore take another successful challenge before a killed program is actually removed from the hill. Sample Entry ;redcode ;name Dwarf ;author A. K. Dewdney ;strategy Throw DAT bombs around memory, hitting every 4th memory cell. ;strategy This program was presented in the first Corewar article. bomb DAT #0 dwarf ADD #4, bomb MOV bomb, @bomb JMP dwarf END dwarf ; Programs start at the first line unless ; an "END start" pseudo-op appears to indicate ; the first logical instruction. Also, nothing ; after the END instruction will be assembled. Duration Max. Hill Name Hill Core Max. Before Entry Min. Rounds Instr. Size Size Processes Distance Fought Set Tie Length Pizza's ICWS '94 Draft Hill Extended (Accessed with 25 8000 8000 80000 100 100 200 ICWS '94 ";redcode-94") Draft Pizza's Beginner's Extended Hill (Accessed 25 8000 8000 80000 100 100 200 ICWS '94 with ";redcode-b") Draft Pizza's Experimental Extended (Small) Hill 25 800 800 8000 20 20 200 ICWS '94 (Accessed with Draft ";redcode-x") Pizza's Limited Process (LP) Hill Extended (Accessed with 25 8000 8 80000 200 200 200 ICWS '94 ";redcode-lp") Draft Stormking's ICWS '88 Standard Hill (Accessed with 20 8000 8000 80000 100 100 250 ICWS '88 ";redcode") Stormking's ICWS '94 No Pspace Hill (Accessed with 20 8000 8000 80000 100 100 250 ICWS '94 ";redcode-94nop") Stormking's ICWS '94 Experimental Extended (Big) Hill 20 55440 55440 500000 200 200 250 ICWS '94 (Accessed with Draft ";redcode-94x") Stormking's ICWS '94 Multi-Warrior Extended Hill (Accessed 10 8000 8000 80000 100 100 200 ICWS '94 with Draft ";redcode-94m") Note: Warriors on the beginner's hill are retired at age 100. If you just want to get a status report without actually challenging the hills, send email with ";status" as the message body (and don't forget "Subject: koth" for "pizza"). If you send mail to "pizza" with "Subject: koth help" you will receive instructions that may be more up to date than those contained in this document. At "stormking", a message body with ";help" will return brief instructions. If you submit code containing a ";test" line, your warrior will be assembled but not actually pitted against the warriors on the hill. At "pizza", you can use ";redcode[-??] test" to do a test challenge of the Hill without affecting the status of the Hill. These challenges can be used to see how well your warrior does against the current Hill warriors. All hills run portable MARS (pMARS) version 0.8, a platform-independent Core War system available at www.koth.org. The '94 and '94x hills allow five experimental opcodes and three experimental addressing modes currently not covered in the ICWS'94 draft document: * LDP - Load P-Space * STP - Store P-Space * SEQ - Skip if EQual (synonym for CMP) * SNE - Skip if Not Equal * NOP - (No OPeration) * * - indirect using A-field as pointer * { - predecrement indirect using A-field * } - postincrement indirect using A-field [ToC] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 15. Is it DAT 0, 0 or DAT #0, #0? How do I compare to core? Core is initialized to DAT 0, 0. This is an illegal instruction (in source code) under ICWS'88 rules and strictly compliant assemblers (such as KotH or pmars -8) will not let you have a DAT 0, 0 instruction in your source code - only DAT #0, #0. So this begs the question, how to compare something to see if it is empty core. The answer is, most likely the instruction before your first instruction and the instruction after your last instruction are both DAT 0, 0. You can use them, or any other likely unmodified instructions, for comparison. Note that under ICWS'94, DAT 0, 0 is a legal instruction. [ToC] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 16. How does SLT (Skip if Less Than) work? SLT gives some people trouble because of the way modular arithmetic works. It is important to note that all negative numbers are converted to positive numbers before a battles begins. Example: -1 becomes M-1 where M is the memory size (core size). Once you realize that all numbers are treated as positive, it is clear what is meant by "less than". It should also be clear that no number is less than zero. [ToC] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 17. What is the difference between in-register and in-memory evaluation? These terms refer to the way instruction operands are evaluated. The '88 Redcode standard ICWS'88 is unclear about whether a simulator should "buffer" the result of A-operand evaluation before the B-operand is evaluated. Simulators that do buffer are said to use in-register evaluation, those that don't, in-memory evaluation. ICWS'94 clears this confusion by mandating in-register evaluation. Instructions that execute differently under these two forms of evaluation are MOV, ADD, SUB, MUL, DIV and MOD where the effective address of the A-operand is modified by evaluation of the B-operand. This is best illustrated by an example: L1 mov L2, mov.i #0, impsize Bootstrapping Strategy of copying the active portion of the program away from the initial location, leaving a decoy behind and making the relocated program as small as possible. B-Scanners Scanners which only recognize non-zero B-fields. example add #10, scan scan jmz example, 10 c Measure of speed, equal to one location per cycle. Speed of light. CMP-Scanner A Scanner which uses a CMP instruction to look for opponents. example add step, scan scan cmp 10, 30 jmp attack jmp example step dat #20, #20 Colour Property of bombs making them visible to scanners, causing them to attack useless locations, thus slowing them down. example dat #100 Core-Clear Code that sequentially overwrites core with DAT instructions; usually the last part of a program. Decoys Bogus or unused instructions meant to slow down scanners. Typically, DATs with non-zero B-fields. Decrement Resistant Property of warriors making them functional (or at least partially functional) when overrun by a DJN-stream. DJN-Stream (also DJN-Train) Using a DJN command to rapidly decrement core locations. example ... ... djn example, <4000 Dwarf The prototypical small bomber. Gate-busting (also gate-crashing) technique to "interweave" a decrement-resistant imp-spiral (e.g. MOV 0, 2668) with a standard one to overrun imp-gates. Hybrids warriors that combine two or more of the basic strategies, either in sequence (e.g. stone->paper) or in parallel (e.g. imp/stone). Imp Program which only uses the MOV instruction. example mov 0, 1 or example mov 0, 2 mov 0, 2 Imp-Gate A location in core which is bombed or decremented continuously so that an Imp can not pass. Also used to describe the program-code which maintains the gate. example ... ... spl 0, mov.i #0,IMPSIZE Mirror see reflection. On-axis/off-axis On-axis scanners compare two locations M/2 apart, where M is the memory size. Off-axis scanners use some other separation. Optimal Constants (also optima-type constants) Bomb or scan increments chosen to cover core most effectively, i.e. leaving gaps of uniform size. Programs to calculate optimal constants and lists of optimal numbers are available at www.koth.org. Paper A Paper-like program is one which replicates itself many times. Part of the Scissors (beats) Paper (beats) Stone (beats Scissors) analogy. P-Warrior A warrior which uses the results of previous round(s) in order to determine which strategy it will use. Pit-Trapper (also Slaver, Vampire). A program which enslaves another. Usually accomplished by bombing with JMPs to a SPL 0 pit with an optional core-clear routine. Q^2 Scan A modern version of the Quick Scan where anything found is attacked almost immediately. Quick Scan 2c scan of a set group of core locations with bombing if anything is found. Both of the following codes snips scan 16 locations and check for a find. If anything is found, it is attacked, otherwise 16 more locations are scanned. Example: start s1 for 8 ;'88 scan cmp start+100*s1, start+100*s1+4000 ;check two locations mov #start+100*s1-found, found ;they differ so set pointer rof jmn attack, found ;if we have something, get it s2 for 8 cmp start+100*(s2+6), start+100*(s2+6)+4000 mov #start+100*(s2+6)-found, found rof found jmz moveme, #0 ;skip attack if qscan found nothing attack cmp @found, start-1 ;does found points to empty space? add #4000, found ;no, so point to correct location mov start-1, @found ;move a bomb moveme jmp 0, 0 In ICWS'94, the quick scan code is more compact because of the SNE opcode: start ;'94 scan s1 for 4 sne start+400*s1, start+400*s1+100 ;check two locations seq start+400*s1+200, start+400*s1+300 ;check two locations mov #start+400*s1-found, found ;they differ so set pointer rof jmn which, found ;if we have something, get it s2 for 4 sne start+400*(s2+4), start+400*(s2+4)+100 seq start+400*(s2+4)+200, start+400*(s2+4)+300 mov #start+400*(s2+4)-found-100, found rof found jmz moveme, #0 ;skip attack if qscan found nothing add #100, -1 ;increment pointer till we get the which jmn -1, @found ;right place mov start-1, @found ;move a bomb moveme jmp 0, 0 Reflection Copy of a program or program part, positioned to make the active program invisible to a CMP-scanner. Replicator Generic for Paper. A program which makes many copies of itself, each copy also making copies. Self-Splitting Strategy of amplifying the number of processes executing a piece of code. example spl 0 loop add #10, example mov example, @example jmp loop Scanner A program which searches through core for an opponent rather than bombing blindly. Scissors A program designed to beat replicators, usually a (B-field scanning) vampire. Part of the Paper-Scissors-Stone analogy. Self-Repair Ability of a program to fix it's own code after attack. Silk A replicator which splits off a process to each new copy before actually copying the code. This allows it to replicate extremely quickly. This technique is only possible under the '94 draft, because it requires post-increment indirect addressing. Example: spl 1 mov -1, 0 spl 1 ;generate 6 consecutive processes silk spl 3620, #0 ;split to new copy mov >-1, }-1 ;copy self to new location mov bomb, >2000 ;linear bombing mov bomb, }2042 ;A-indirect bombing for anti-vamp jmp silk, {silk ;reset source pointer, make new copy bomb dat >2667, >5334 ;anti-imp bomb Slaver see Pit-Trapper. Stealth Property of programs, or program parts, which are invisible to scanners, accomplished by using zero B-fields and reflections. Stone A Stone-like program designed to be a small bomber. Part of the Paper-Scissors-Stone analogy. Stun A type of bomb which makes the opponent multiply useless processes, thus slowing it down. Example is referred to as a SPL-JMP bomb. example spl 0 jmp -1 Two-Pass Core-Clear (also SPL/DAT Core-Clear) core clear that fills core first with SPL instructions, then with DATs. This is very effective in killing paper and certain imp-spiral variations. Vampire see Pit-Trapper. Vector Launch one of several means to start an imp-spiral running. As fast as Binary Launch, but requiring much less code. See also JMP/ADD Launch and Binary Launch. This example is one form of a Vector Launch: sz EQU 2667 spl 1 spl 1 jmp @vt, }0 vt dat #0, imp+0*sz ; start of vector table dat #0, imp+1*sz dat #0, imp+2*sz dat #0, imp+3*sz ; end of vector table imp mov.i #0, sz [ToC] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 23. Other questions? Just ask in the rec.games.corewar newsgroup or contact me. If you are shy, check out the Core War archives first to see if your question has been answered before. [ToC] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Credits Additions, corrections, etc. to this document are solicited. Thanks in particular to the following people who have contributed major portions of this document: * Mark Durham (wrote the original version of the FAQ) * Paul Kline * Randy Graham * Stefan Strack (maintained a recent version of the FAQ) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Copyright � 1999 Anton Marsden. Verbatim copying and distribution of this entire article is permitted in any medium, provided this notice is preserved. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Leonardo H. Liporati" Subject: Re: Q^3 and q^4 Scanner Date: 16 Apr 2001 17:39:45 -0400 Message-ID: <01041618162404.00745@bh-59-226> Em seg, 16 abr 2001, Sascha Zapf escreveu: > Hi, > > i have understood what the difference between Quick and Q^2 Scanner... > > But what are Q^3 or Q^4 Scanners...Faster then Q^2 means that the > scanniong Parts ar slower, or? > > Sascha Hi Sascha, a question similar to yours appeared in this newsgroup last month. You can read my response, reproduced in Mr. Pihlaja Corewar page, at: http://www.cs.Helsinki.FI/u/jpihlaja/cw/qscaninfo.txt Or you can read the entire thread at DejaNews (now Google Groups): http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&group=rec.games.corewar&safe=off&ic=1&th=ba802fecaabf0952&seekd=917040417#917040417 NOTICE: The above URL maybe wrapped. Regards, Leonardo. From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - ICWS Experimental 94 04/16/01 Date: 16 Apr 2001 18:09:59 -0400 Message-ID: <200104160400.AAA01388@gevjon.ttsg.com> Weekly Status on 04/16/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG ICWS Experimental 94 CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Mon Apr 9 18:49:22 EDT 2001 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 69/ 23/ 8 Hold still a minute...Tha Dave Hillis 215 2 2 39/ 20/ 42 KAT v5 Dave Hillis 158 10 3 44/ 32/ 24 Black Moods Ian Oversby 156 74 4 45/ 39/ 16 Greetings From Asbury Par JKW 152 38 5 38/ 30/ 32 Controlled Aggression Ian Oversby 145 78 6 31/ 18/ 50 Katafutr Michal Janeczek 145 18 7 34/ 26/ 39 Damage Inflicted Robert Macrae 143 17 8 39/ 35/ 26 Ogre Christian Schmidt 142 26 9 22/ 4/ 73 Black Box v1.1 JKW 140 41 10 25/ 11/ 65 Denial David Moore 139 19 11 24/ 9/ 67 Evol Cap 4 X John Wilkinson 139 147 12 33/ 31/ 37 Big I.F.F.S. Dave Hillis 135 7 13 27/ 22/ 50 Venom v0.2b Christian Schmidt 133 100 14 20/ 9/ 71 Evolve X v4.0 John Wilkinson 132 95 15 36/ 41/ 22 Pagan John K W 131 132 16 30/ 36/ 34 test CS 125 35 17 28/ 31/ 42 Disaster Area 2.10 Stefan Foerster 125 4 18 24/ 23/ 54 Purple v0.1 Christian Schmidt 124 99 19 25/ 28/ 47 Disaster Area 2.8 Stefan Foerster 122 5 20 8/ 83/ 9 Disabuse Dave Hillis 32 1 21 6/ 86/ 8 5-imp bdonlan 26 0 From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - Standard 04/16/01 Date: 16 Apr 2001 18:09:56 -0400 Message-ID: <200104160400.AAA01380@gevjon.ttsg.com> Weekly Status on 04/16/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG Standard KotH CoreWar Hill : Last battle concluded at : Sun Apr 15 18:19:05 EDT 2001 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 31/ 20/ 49 Freight Train David Moore 142 74 2 30/ 20/ 49 sIMPly.Red v0.95 Leonardo Humberto 141 31 3 30/ 20/ 50 Test Alexander (Sasha) Wa 139 13 4 38/ 37/ 25 Stasis David Moore 139 181 5 28/ 21/ 51 Guardian Ian Oversby 136 73 6 40/ 44/ 17 Foggy Swamp Beppe Bezzi 136 70 7 34/ 35/ 31 PacMan David Moore 134 103 8 38/ 44/ 18 Blur '88 Anton Marsden 132 111 9 36/ 41/ 23 Beholder's Eye V1.7 W. Mintardjo 131 349 10 33/ 37/ 30 Tangle Trap David Moore 130 147 11 22/ 16/ 62 EV Paper John K Wilkinson 128 87 12 37/ 46/ 17 Iron Gate Wayne Sheppard 128 399 13 29/ 30/ 41 Frog Sticker P.Kline 128 23 14 37/ 47/ 16 ig Wayne Sheppard 128 1 15 25/ 22/ 54 Shish-Ka-Bob Ben Ford 127 29 16 32/ 38/ 30 Stillborn Bomber v0.2 mjp 126 14 17 22/ 19/ 59 Test I Ian Oversby 126 130 18 23/ 21/ 56 Evoltmp 88 John K W 126 124 19 23/ 20/ 57 sic Leonardo H. Liporati 125 3 20 13/ 3/ 84 ]enigma[ Michal Janeczek 123 2 21 2/ 25/ 72 Replic 2.2 Eike Preuss 79 0 From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - 94 No Pspace 04/16/01 Date: 16 Apr 2001 18:10:04 -0400 Message-ID: <200104160400.AAA01392@gevjon.ttsg.com> Weekly Status on 04/16/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG 94 No Pspace CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Fri Apr 13 12:20:21 EDT 2001 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 36/ 20/ 44 Son of Vain Oversby/Pihlaja 153 42 2 43/ 39/ 18 Behemot Michal Janeczek 147 276 3 36/ 27/ 38 Quicksilver Michal Janeczek 145 215 4 32/ 21/ 47 nPaper II Paul-V Khuong 144 453 5 42/ 41/ 17 Eraser II Ken Espiritu 143 410 6 34/ 26/ 40 Olivia Ben Ford 143 181 7 36/ 32/ 32 Blacken Ian Oversby 140 700 8 25/ 12/ 63 The Phantom Menace Anton Marsden 137 153 9 33/ 28/ 39 Uninvited John Metcalf 137 135 10 40/ 45/ 15 G2-b David Moore 135 239 11 40/ 46/ 13 Toofan Ayan Chakrabarti 134 71 12 30/ 25/ 45 Brigadeer M Joonas Pihlaja 134 46 13 39/ 44/ 16 Jinx Christian Schmidt 134 416 14 35/ 35/ 30 Keyser Soze Anton Marsden 134 154 15 30/ 28/ 42 Jade Ben Ford 133 522 16 31/ 31/ 37 Velvet Fist Ayan Chakrabarti 131 25 17 31/ 30/ 39 Yesterday's Scream a P.Kline 131 5 18 40/ 50/ 10 Kenshin Steve Gunnell 130 43 19 32/ 45/ 23 rTest P.Kline 118 6 20 35/ 53/ 12 atest P.Kline 116 1 21 34/ 53/ 13 Necessary Evil Anton Marsden 116 2 From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - MultiWarrior 94 04/16/01 Date: 16 Apr 2001 18:10:09 -0400 Message-ID: <200104160400.AAA01384@gevjon.ttsg.com> Weekly Status on 04/16/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG Multiwarrior 94 CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Mon Apr 9 15:27:16 EDT 2001 # Name Author Score Age 1 QuiVa John Metcalf 47 148 2 Pitbull Christian Schmidt 28 11 3 Her Majesty P.Kline 28 74 4 Dracula's Cape Ben Ford 26 33 5 D-clearM Ken Espiritu 23 55 6 Foo John Metcalf 22 9 7 fclear Brian Haskin 20 39 8 Scan Test Tester 19 14 9 Friction Ken Espiritu 13 27 10 Parasite 1.3 Stefan Foerster 5 1 11 Tom & Jerry 1.0 Stefan Foerster 0 0 From: Sascha Zapf Subject: Q^3 and q^4 Scanner Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 21:20:23 +0200 Message-ID: <3ADB45F7.A88BD9D6@netcologne.de> Hi, i have understood what the difference between Quick and Q^2 Scanner... But what are Q^3 or Q^4 Scanners...Faster then Q^2 means that the scanniong Parts ar slower, or? Sascha From: Hillis Subject: Re: Experimental Hill Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 20:09:06 -0400 Message-ID: <3ADCDB22.2E1389D@erols.com> Robert Macrae wrote: > > > I've found on standing list of '94 Experimental Hill, that "Hold still a > > minute... Thanks" by Dave Hillis earned 100% of points fighting against > > itself. Interesting... I guess it's a small trick with PIN, am I right, > > Dave? If not, how is it possible? > > An old trick of mine AFAIK -- see BigBoy from NSFCWT. You can clean up the > code massively using a modern P-switcher, but I've never developed a new > main warrior to match. As the constants in "Dying to know" look kind of > familiar, I suspect the original code lives on 8-) Yes. A useful and instructive piece of code. Dave Hillis From: William R. Buckley Subject: Level of activity. Message-ID: <10esdtgfl6cpklhq9u745ek6h9esog6crj@4ax.com> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:02:17 -0700 To CoreWar Gamers Everywhere: The volume of postings to this newsgroup is just as low as I had expected at the time that I passed control of the ICWS to Mark Durham in 1992 (or, was it 1993?). With no central organisation to promote the game, CoreWar has lapsed into obscurity. Perhaps the time is now for a resurrection! So, this is the announcement of the formation of a new CoreWar authority, CoreWar International. You can find more information by regular reading of this site, or by sending a Self-Addressed, Stamped Envelope (SASE) to: CoreWar International PO Box 292728 Phelan CA 92329-2728 From: "John K. Lewis" Subject: Re: Level of activity. Message-ID: <8JGD6.34$3n.2374@news.itd.umich.edu> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 19:08:52 GMT William R. Buckley wrote: > To CoreWar Gamers Everywhere: > The volume of postings to this newsgroup is just as low as I > had expected at the time that I passed control of the ICWS > to Mark Durham in 1992 (or, was it 1993?). With no central > organisation to promote the game, CoreWar has lapsed into > obscurity. Perhaps the time is now for a resurrection! > So, this is the announcement of the formation of a new > CoreWar authority, CoreWar International. You can find > more information by regular reading of this site, or by > sending a Self-Addressed, Stamped Envelope (SASE) > to: > CoreWar International > PO Box 292728 > Phelan CA 92329-2728 Let me be the first to say, Welcome Back. From: ransom@localhost.localdomain (Ransom Smith) Subject: Re: Level of activity. Message-ID: Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 23:37:30 GMT On Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:02:17 -0700, William R. Buckley wrote: >To CoreWar Gamers Everywhere: > >The volume of postings to this newsgroup is just as low as I >had expected at the time that I passed control of the ICWS >to Mark Durham in 1992 (or, was it 1993?). With no central >organisation to promote the game, CoreWar has lapsed into >obscurity. Perhaps the time is now for a resurrection! > CoreWar players of the world, unite! >So, this is the announcement of the formation of a new >CoreWar authority, CoreWar International. You can find >more information by regular reading of this site, or by >sending a Self-Addressed, Stamped Envelope (SASE) >to: > >CoreWar International >PO Box 292728 >Phelan CA 92329-2728 > Would you mean this newsgroup? Or was there a url that I missed? Also, was the volume much higher before you transferred control? That would be a sight. I seem to have arrived after this happened. Say, does this mean that we'll have an official standards body, to make pMARS the official simulator of an actual organization? Diversity has its merits, but unity is definitely cool. -- [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=5913] [foehg@burtonian.com] [http://www.koth.org/] [http://www.nethack.org/] [http://www.slashdot.org/] I reserve the right to be normal, at any time and without notice. From: birk@andromeda.ociw.edu Subject: Koenigstuhl News Date: 20 Apr 2001 09:24:20 -0400 Message-ID: <200104191843.f3JIhig07742@andromeda.ociw.edu> Congratulations to John Metcalf! 'Uninvited' has entered the 94nop-Koenigstuhl at rank-2. (http://andromeda.ociw.edu/COREWAR/koenigstuhl.html) Christoph Message-ID: <3AE35091.91FBE5D1@epix.net> From: Nathan McKenzie Subject: Re: Level of activity. Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 22:42:32 GMT Finally! I may have arrived after the ICWS, but it sounded like good times when it was around!!! Brandon From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - MultiWarrior 94 04/23/01 Date: 23 Apr 2001 08:41:37 -0400 Message-ID: <200104230400.AAA23635@gevjon.ttsg.com> Weekly Status on 04/23/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG Multiwarrior 94 CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Mon Apr 9 15:27:16 EDT 2001 # Name Author Score Age 1 QuiVa John Metcalf 47 148 2 Pitbull Christian Schmidt 28 11 3 Her Majesty P.Kline 28 74 4 Dracula's Cape Ben Ford 26 33 5 D-clearM Ken Espiritu 23 55 6 Foo John Metcalf 22 9 7 fclear Brian Haskin 20 39 8 Scan Test Tester 19 14 9 Friction Ken Espiritu 13 27 10 Parasite 1.3 Stefan Foerster 5 1 11 Tom & Jerry 1.0 Stefan Foerster 0 0 From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - 94 No Pspace 04/23/01 Date: 23 Apr 2001 08:41:43 -0400 Message-ID: <200104230400.AAA23646@gevjon.ttsg.com> Weekly Status on 04/23/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG 94 No Pspace CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Fri Apr 20 11:38:28 EDT 2001 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 36/ 19/ 45 Son of Vain Oversby/Pihlaja 153 65 2 43/ 39/ 19 Behemot Michal Janeczek 147 299 3 36/ 26/ 38 Quicksilver Michal Janeczek 147 238 4 35/ 24/ 41 Olivia Ben Ford 145 204 5 34/ 27/ 39 Uninvited John Metcalf 141 158 6 42/ 43/ 15 Jinx Christian Schmidt 141 439 7 40/ 41/ 18 Test Test 139 1 8 41/ 43/ 16 Eraser II Ken Espiritu 138 433 9 41/ 44/ 15 G2-b David Moore 138 262 10 32/ 26/ 43 Jade Ben Ford 137 545 11 30/ 23/ 46 nPaper II Paul-V Khuong 137 476 12 23/ 10/ 67 The Phantom Menace Anton Marsden 137 176 13 35/ 34/ 31 Blacken Ian Oversby 137 723 14 35/ 35/ 30 Keyser Soze Anton Marsden 135 177 15 28/ 25/ 47 Brigadeer M Joonas Pihlaja 132 69 16 40/ 50/ 9 Kenshin Steve Gunnell 130 66 17 37/ 46/ 16 btest P.Kline 128 7 18 37/ 51/ 12 Toofan Ayan Chakrabarti 123 94 19 27/ 32/ 40 Yesterday's Scream a P.Kline 123 28 20 28/ 34/ 38 Velvet Fist Ayan Chakrabarti 122 48 21 29/ 58/ 13 atest P.Kline 100 0 From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - ICWS Experimental 94 04/23/01 Date: 23 Apr 2001 08:41:47 -0400 Message-ID: <200104230400.AAA23641@gevjon.ttsg.com> Weekly Status on 04/23/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG ICWS Experimental 94 CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Tue Apr 17 15:00:19 EDT 2001 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 38/ 20/ 42 KAT v5 Dave Hillis 157 11 2 44/ 32/ 24 Black Moods Ian Oversby 156 75 3 45/ 39/ 16 Greetings From Asbury Par JKW 152 39 4 38/ 31/ 32 Controlled Aggression Ian Oversby 145 79 5 31/ 18/ 51 Katafutr Michal Janeczek 144 19 6 34/ 26/ 39 Damage Inflicted Robert Macrae 142 18 7 38/ 36/ 26 Ogre Christian Schmidt 140 27 8 22/ 4/ 74 Black Box v1.1 JKW 139 42 9 25/ 11/ 65 Denial David Moore 139 20 10 24/ 9/ 67 Evol Cap 4 X John Wilkinson 139 148 11 28/ 22/ 50 Venom v0.2b Christian Schmidt 133 101 12 36/ 42/ 22 Pagan John K W 129 133 13 19/ 9/ 72 Evolve X v4.0 John Wilkinson 129 96 14 28/ 31/ 41 Disaster Area 2.10 Stefan Foerster 126 5 15 24/ 23/ 54 Purple v0.1 Christian Schmidt 125 100 16 30/ 36/ 34 test CS 124 36 17 25/ 28/ 47 Disaster Area 2.8 Stefan Foerster 123 6 18 28/ 33/ 39 Big I.F.F.S. Dave Hillis 123 8 19 9/ 81/ 11 Disabuse Dave Hillis 37 2 20 9/ 81/ 11 Disabuse 2 Dave Hillis 37 1 21 4/ 1/ 0 Hold still a minute...Tha Dave Hillis 11 3 From: "phil" Subject: what is this? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 18:37:03 GMT I was curious what this game is that you all play and if there is a website to sign up on to play? From: "pvk" Subject: Re: mOpt vs. corestep Message-ID: Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 18:49:01 -0400 Sascha Zapf wrote in message news:3AE46E40.9B265F0F@netcologne.de... > Hi, > > I'm trying to learn something about corestep and mOpt and effects of > better Constants. > > OK. > > I'm working on a Stone which throws two bombs to different positions.. > The important instruktions are like > > > mov.i datb,*datb > mov.i datb,@datb > add.a #A_Inkr,datb > add.ab #B_Inkr,datb > ... > ... > ... > ... > datb dat #4000,#0 [snip] Well, first, the warrior isn't really optimized 8) A real 100% same functionality way of doing it would be like: Mov.i Datb, *Datb Mov.i Datb, @Datb Add.f Incr, Datb [...] datb dat.f [x], [y] incr dat.f [step1], [step2] Oh, and i really suck with mopt,. so don't ask 8) Anyway, the "best" mod-4 step, mathematically, is usually considered to be 3044 and (8000-3044) (functionally, they work just as well 8). From: Sascha Zapf Subject: mOpt vs. corestep Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:02:40 +0200 Message-ID: <3AE46E40.9B265F0F@netcologne.de> Hi, I'm trying to learn something about corestep and mOpt and effects of better Constants. OK. I'm working on a Stone which throws two bombs to different positions.. The important instruktions are like mov.i datb,*datb mov.i datb,@datb add.a #A_Inkr,datb add.ab #B_Inkr,datb ... ... ... ... datb dat #4000,#0 OK...The hole Warrios has Spaces for the Bombs, so i can Mod4-bombing. When i ask corestep for constants with corestep 8000 -m 4 -cc -l 4000 -b 10 It reports 3004 and 3364 as the best. Now i think mOpt is better because i can Input two Inkrements and the Offsets. So i use mOpt with Coresize 8000 Target Size 30 inkrement generator #1 : a=4,a<8000,a=a+4 ;for the A_Inkr offset : 0 inkrement generator #2 : b=4,b<8000,b=b+4 ;for the B_Inkr offset : 4000 Now my Questions. 1) Are the params for mOpt right.? 2) Are the results of corestep good enough or do i better wait for the mOpt result.? 3) Works mOpt like i think and use both? Sascha From: Ilmari Karonen Subject: Re: what is this? Date: 23 Apr 2001 20:13:20 GMT Message-ID: <988056406.4556@itz.pp.sci.fi> In article , phil wrote: >I was curious what this game is that you all play and if there is a website >to sign up on to play? There's a webring at http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/cgi-bin/impring , but unfortunately it's currently missing one of the most important Core War sites of all, http://www.koth.org . I'd better send another request to join to the CW sites not yet in the webring. I understand if someone really doesn't want to join, but I've received no response from either koth.org or pizza, and I'm wondering if my e-mails have simply vanished somewhere. In any case, a webring that doesn't include the central sites is pretty pointless. :-( -- Ilmari Karonen - http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/ Join the Core War Imp Ring: http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/cgi-bin/impring From: ransom@localhost.localdomain (Ransom Smith) Subject: Re: mOpt vs. corestep Message-ID: Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:57:31 GMT On Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:02:40 +0200, Sascha Zapf wrote: >Hi, > >I'm trying to learn something about corestep and mOpt and effects of >better Constants. > >OK. > >I'm working on a Stone which throws two bombs to different positions.. >The important instruktions are like > > > mov.i datb,*datb > mov.i datb,@datb > add.a #A_Inkr,datb > add.ab #B_Inkr,datb > ... > ... > ... > ... >datb dat #4000,#0 > Yes, your real question has merit. But I like to comment here better. You can save 1 cycle (which is VERY cool) here by integrating your two ADDs, and adding a DAT. It'll look like this: mov.i datb,*datb mov.i datb,@datb add.f incr,datb ... ... ... ... datb dat #4000,#0 incr dat #A_Inkr,#B_Inkr Isn't that just the coolest? Anyway, in a situation like this, I think I'd use mopt. Don't remember exactly the advantages and such, as it's been a while since I've used it. But anyway, that last cycle can work wonders for performance. Your original model was <.5c. This new way is <.66c. You can make it even more deadly with a little decrement-tweaking. -- [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=5913] [foehg@burtonian.com] [http://www.koth.org/] [http://www.nethack.org/] [http://www.slashdot.org/] I reserve the right to be normal, at any time and without notice. From: ransom@localhost.localdomain (Ransom Smith) Subject: Re: what is this? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 23:01:58 GMT On Mon, 23 Apr 2001 18:37:03 GMT, phil wrote: >I was curious what this game is that you all play and if there is a website >to sign up on to play? Two people write programs, see? Maybe more, but start with two. Run both programs at the same time. Watch carefully, and see which one kicks the other one's butt. TA-DAAA! Corewar. :-) -- [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=5913] [foehg@burtonian.com] [http://www.koth.org/] [http://www.nethack.org/] [http://www.slashdot.org/] I reserve the right to be normal, at any time and without notice. Message-ID: <3AE4D122.FF8CF6C3@epix.net> From: Nathan McKenzie Subject: Re: what is this? Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 02:03:16 GMT phil wrote: > I was curious what this game is that you all play and if there is a website > to sign up on to play? Okay, here's how this works: 1: No sign-ups. All you is read tutorials to learn the ropes and then get started. 2: What you do is write a program that competes in a simulated arena with one or more programs. 3: Keep practicing, you can discover new tactics that can really give you and advantage. 4: Use all of your resources! This is very important! Brandon From: "Robert Macrae" Subject: Re: what is this? Date: 24 Apr 2001 09:30:46 -0400 Message-ID: <006f01c0cc83$e3afb860$2100a8c0@HomePC> > I was curious what this game is that you all play and if there is a website > to sign up on to play? Take a look at www.koth.org; it has links to everything you need. You don't have to sign up, you just get a copy of PMARS and start hacking 8-) Robert Macrae From: "Robert Macrae" Subject: Re: mOpt vs. corestep Date: 24 Apr 2001 09:30:41 -0400 Message-ID: <007001c0cc83$e3f2dbe0$2100a8c0@HomePC> > I'm trying to learn something about corestep and mOpt and effects of > better Constants. I only know MOpt. > Now i think mOpt is better because i can Input two Inkrements and the > Offsets. ... which is useful, provided this is what you really want... > So i use mOpt with > > Coresize 8000 > Target Size 30 > inkrement generator #1 : a=4,a<8000,a=a+4 ;for the A_Inkr > offset : 0 > inkrement generator #2 : b=4,b<8000,b=b+4 ;for the B_Inkr > offset : 4000 ... but I'm not sure it is. This is a very general search, looking at (8000/4)^2 = 4 million choices, many of which can be eliminated: 1) you probably don't want mod-8 steps, so use a=a+8 to test only 4, 12, 20... 2) MOpt doesn't care about direction, so use a<4000 to only test positive steps. In practice, positive and negative do differ because of their interractions with directional things like imps (and, for scanners, with boot code and decoys) but MOpt doesn't know about these and they are probably best tackled in the debugger (cdb) or in hand-written simulation code. Each of these suggestions can be applied to both a and b, reducing the problem to a friendlier (4000/8)^2. However, most people, most of the time, make much more radical simplifications. When optimising two steps, it is _usual_ to make them equal in magnitude though they are often different sign. This may sound pretty brutal, but for a good choice of step this is always "filling in the gaps" in an efficient way*. The best approach, in my experience, is to pull out some different-looking patterns and watch how they fill core in cdb. > 1) Are the params for mOpt right.? Yes, as far as I remember the syntax, and subject to what you want to achieve. > 2) Are the results of corestep good enough or do i better wait for the > mOpt result.? It is no disgrace to quit MOpt early as after a few thousand runs the best yet will probably be as good as it will ever achieve. Examine both in cdb and see which makes most sense to you. Paul Kline has published some nice stepsize tables you might want to examine; they include some other kinds of interractions, such as those with imps. > 3) Works mOpt like i think and use both? I have never entirely understood MOpt. It is a great place to start... but then roll out cdb and look at the resulting patterns. If you can understand why MOpt prefers some to others it will help you to make a good choice. Good luck! Robert Macrae * Questions of optimality left to resident mathematicians 8-) From: Sascha Zapf Subject: Re: mOpt vs. corestep Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 09:32:33 +0200 Message-ID: <3AE52C11.B2BFC70@netcologne.de> Ransom Smith schrieb: > > On Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:02:40 +0200, Sascha Zapf wrote: > >Hi, > > > >I'm trying to learn something about corestep and mOpt and effects of > >better Constants. > > > >OK. > > > >I'm working on a Stone which throws two bombs to different positions.. > >The important instruktions are like > > > > > > mov.i datb,*datb > > mov.i datb,@datb > > add.a #A_Inkr,datb > > add.ab #B_Inkr,datb > > ... > > ... > > ... > > ... > >datb dat #4000,#0 > > > > Yes, your real question has merit. But I like to comment here better. > You can save 1 cycle (which is VERY cool) here by integrating your two > ADDs, and adding a DAT. It'll look like this: > > mov.i datb,*datb > mov.i datb,@datb > add.f incr,datb > ... > ... > ... > ... > datb dat #4000,#0 > incr dat #A_Inkr,#B_Inkr > > Isn't that just the coolest? > > Anyway, in a situation like this, I think I'd use mopt. Don't remember > exactly the advantages and such, as it's been a while since I've used it. > > But anyway, that last cycle can work wonders for performance. Your original > model was <.5c. This new way is <.66c. You can make it even more deadly > with a little decrement-tweaking. > > -- Thanx, saving one Instruktion can be the difference between Win or Tie... O.K, In CoreSize 55440 all Modulo from2 up to 12 will work, so it's easy to protect your Stone from Selfbombing. But what's with CoreSize 8000, were only 2,4,5,8 and 10 are factors. Should i count any Bomb i've dropped and stop before the last. Or should i try to find out an Offset/Inkrement-Pair which take the Selfboming to the end of the Round. Is it a Solution to use the Selfbombing for mutating to something like CoreClear. Oh, too much Questions... Sascha > [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=5913] [foehg@burtonian.com] > [http://www.koth.org/] [http://www.nethack.org/] [http://www.slashdot.org/] > I reserve the right to be normal, at any time and without notice. From: Sascha Zapf Subject: Re: what is this? Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 09:34:26 +0200 Message-ID: <3AE52C82.E10B9B11@netcologne.de> Nathan McKenzie schrieb: > > phil wrote: > > > I was curious what this game is that you all play and if there is a website > > to sign up on to play? > > Okay, here's how this works: > > 1: No sign-ups. All you is read tutorials to learn the ropes and then get > started. > > 2: What you do is write a program that competes in a simulated arena with one > or more programs. If it were so simple! > > 3: Keep practicing, you can discover new tactics that can really give you and > advantage. > > 4: Use all of your resources! This is very important! > Yes, the lecture of CoreWarrior 1 to 79 was an 20 Hour trip into CoreWar > Brandon From: Lukasz Adamowski Subject: Re: what is this? Date: 24 Apr 2001 11:13:21 -0400 Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Apr 2001, Sascha Zapf wrote: > > Nathan McKenzie schrieb: > > > > phil wrote: > > > > > I was curious what this game is that you all play and if there is a website > > > to sign up on to play? > > > 4: Use all of your resources! This is very important! > > > Yes, the lecture of CoreWarrior 1 to 79 was an 20 Hour trip into CoreWar Hey! You don't have to read this! I've read only two or three last CoreWarriors, and the most I've learnt about CoreWars was from pMARS documentation (redcode.ref file especially). Strategies? Well... You will have to learn about some basics, but it isn't very hard. Knowledge comes with time. Lukasz From: Lukasz Adamowski Subject: Re: mOpt vs. corestep Date: 24 Apr 2001 11:13:18 -0400 Message-ID: I don't know both m0pt and corestep. Where can I find them? Lukasz From: birk@andromeda.ociw.edu Subject: new Koenigstuhl address Date: 24 Apr 2001 15:44:20 -0400 Message-ID: <200104241835.f3OIZWM00047@andromeda.ociw.edu> The 'Koenigstuhl' moved to http://www.ociw.edu/~birk/COREWAR/koenigstuhl.html Christoph From: Lukasz Adamowski Subject: Re: Just an idea... Date: 24 Apr 2001 15:50:25 -0400 Message-ID: And what about multi-strategy warriors, i.e. paper->stun->clear or paper/clear? It's hard to classify them, I think. Lukasz From: Sascha Zapf Subject: Just an idea... Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 18:30:15 +0200 Message-ID: <3AE5AA17.5F6C9D66@netcologne.de> Here is what i thougt about, I think Benchmarks like Wilkies or Wilmoo are very important, but for work out general strategies they wouldn't help too much. Last day if have looked in Planars Warriors Archive. The Warriors are sorted by Strategy. What about an Benchmark with 200 Hundred Warriors, in all categories. 25-50 Scanner 25-50 Stones ... ... ... When i'm thinking about and anti-scan strategy, then i can choose all Scanners to fight again. So i will see the improvement of me Warrios since the last change. Or i can run against all Warriors, and the Results are listed like this. Testfighter V1.7 - Benchmark =================================================== Category W% /L% /T% --------------------------------------------------- B-Scanner ( 20 Warrior(s) ) 17%/23%/%60 Q^2-Scanner ( 17 Warrior(s) ) 10%/12%/%78 ... ... Imp-Spirals ( 3 Warrior(s) ) 98%/01%/%01 --------------------------------------------------- O.k, not all Warriors in the archive have strategy-Lines, but quite enough i think. What do you think about this? Sascha From: Hillis Subject: Re: Just an idea... Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 21:53:46 -0400 Message-ID: <3AE62E2A.F774B170@erols.com> Randy Graham wrote: ... > ... I just wish I had enough time to play instead of just > watching the group. Most of you probably don't even know me, but I > used to be actice and write some good stuff. I miss corewar. > If I had a dime for every time "Porch Swing" creamed one of my warriors I would be a rich man. Dave Hillis From: Randy Graham Subject: Re: Just an idea... Message-ID: <867cet00ck541o0rda61650o948dbfm66n@4ax.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 00:45:26 GMT On Tue, 24 Apr 2001 18:30:15 +0200, Sascha Zapf wrote: >Here is what i thougt about, > >I think Benchmarks like Wilkies or Wilmoo are very important, but for >work out general strategies they wouldn't help too much. They are geared towards getting a warrior on the hills. You are correct that they aren't good for testing out specific strategies. >Last day if have looked in Planars Warriors Archive. The Warriors are >sorted by Strategy. Love Planar. Best site outside of koth. >What about an Benchmark with 200 Hundred Warriors, in all categories. > >25-50 Scanner >25-50 Stones >... >... >... > > >When i'm thinking about and anti-scan strategy, then i can choose all >Scanners to fight again. So i will see the improvement of me Warrios >since the last change. Good idea to see if you strategy is working against warriors you expect it to work against. Not quite as useful for seeing if you have a shot at getting on the hills. >Or i can run against all Warriors, and the Results are listed like this. > >Testfighter V1.7 - Benchmark >=================================================== >Category W% /L% /T% >--------------------------------------------------- >B-Scanner ( 20 Warrior(s) ) 17%/23%/%60 >Q^2-Scanner ( 17 Warrior(s) ) 10%/12%/%78 >... >... >Imp-Spirals ( 3 Warrior(s) ) 98%/01%/%01 >--------------------------------------------------- Hmmmm, not that would be nice. >O.k, not all Warriors in the archive have strategy-Lines, but quite >enough i think. > >What do you think about this? Sounds great. I just wish I had enough time to play instead of just watching the group. Most of you probably don't even know me, but I used to be actice and write some good stuff. I miss corewar. >Sascha RagManX From: Randy Graham Subject: Re: Just an idea... Message-ID: <11ieetcao003v1rjf3avelndc7cba5gptl@4ax.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:01:59 GMT On Tue, 24 Apr 2001 21:53:46 -0400, Hillis wrote: > > >Randy Graham wrote: >... > > >> ... I just wish I had enough time to play instead of just >> watching the group. Most of you probably don't even know me, but I >> used to be actice and write some good stuff. I miss corewar. >> > If I had a dime for every time "Porch Swing" creamed one of my warriors >I would be a rich man. Can't believe anyone still knows or uses Porch Swing. He got pushed off the hills so long ago. Easiest way to beat him is to use a decoy with at least 1000 core cells spacing. Also, backwards scanning/bombing warriors can whip him. I will admit, however, that it was a real thrill when he broke on to the hill with a 172 score. Highest I had ever seen up to that point (I think Robert Macrae (sp?) beat that out after Porch Swing had fallen, though). >Dave Hillis RagManX From: "Benjamin Ford" Subject: Re: Just an idea... Date: 26 Apr 2001 08:41:37 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Randy Graham" > On Tue, 24 Apr 2001 21:53:46 -0400, Hillis wrote: > > If I had a dime for every time "Porch Swing" creamed one of my warriors > >I would be a rich man. > Can't believe anyone still knows or uses Porch Swing. He got pushed > off the hills so long ago. Easiest way to beat him is to use a decoy > with at least 1000 core cells spacing. Also, backwards > scanning/bombing warriors can whip him. > > I will admit, however, that it was a real thrill when he broke on to > the hill with a 172 score. Highest I had ever seen up to that point > (I think Robert Macrae (sp?) beat that out after Porch Swing had > fallen, though). I think Porch Swing still sees some because its in the Wilkie benchmark. Even though that benchmark is horribly out of date, many newbies could download it and use it to rate their warriors. -Ben From: ianoversby@aol.com (IanOversby) Date: 26 Apr 2001 20:12:03 GMT Subject: Vain Message-ID: <20010426161203.09498.00001092@ng-mk1.aol.com> The idea for Vain was simply to implement an imp-gate in Gigolo which had been a very successful imp/stone. Watching the stone systematically obliterate each square twice while cleverly avoiding itself it seemed to be quite a difficult problem to slot a gate in. Gigolo-style (Rosebud) stone: clr spl #0, -step, step+1 add split, stone cnt djn.f stone, 2) ;strategy Rosebudish Stone, Impfinity Imps ;strategy and a core-clear ;assert CORESIZE==8000 sdist equ (start+3614) dec equ 6944 tr equ 6565 idist equ (start+2214) st equ 1432 ddist equ sdist-1054-2 ist equ 2667 mx equ -7 spin spl.b #pump+tr, >-3000 sub.f #-(ist+1), jump pump mov.i imp, }spin jump jmp.f tr-2*(ist+1), 800 spl.b #0, 0+st, 3-st add.f p, -1 djn.f -2, 1, #10 spl.b #0, #0 mov.i mx, >mx-1 dl djn.f -1, >mx-2 for 5 dat.f 0, 0 rof qf equ qKil qs equ (qd*2) qd equ 107 qi equ 7 qr equ 11 ; -+)>] 0/1 cycles [(<+- start qGo: seq qd+qf+qs, qf+qs ; 1 jmp qSki, {qd+qf+qs+qi seq qd+qf+6*qs, qf+6*qs ; B jmp qFas, {qd+qf+6*qs+qi seq qd+qf+5*qs, qf+5*qs ; B-1 jmp qFas, qBmb seq qd+qf+9*qs, qf+9*qs ; A-1 djn qFas, {qFas seq qd+qf+10*qs, qf+10*qs ; A jmp qFas, {qFas ; -+>)] 2 cycles [(<+- seq qd+qf+3*qs, qf+3*qs ; C jmp >qFas, {qd+qf+3*qs+qi seq qd+qf+2*qs, qf+2*qs ; C-1 jmp >qFas, {qSlo seq qd+qf+4*qs, qf+4*qs ; C+1 jmp >qFas, }qSlo seq qd+qf+12*qs, qf+12*qs ; B*C-B jmp qSlo, {qSlo seq qd+qf+15*qs, qf+15*qs ; B*C-C jmp qSlo, qBmb seq qd+qf+24*qs, qf+24*qs ; B*C+B jmp qSlo, }qSlo seq qd+qf+27*qs, qf+27*qs ; A*C-C djn qSlo, {qFas seq qd+qf+30*qs, qf+30*qs ; A*C jmp qSlo, {qFas sne qd+qf+18*qs, qf+18*qs ; B*C jmz.f pGo, qd+qf+18*qs-10 qSlo:mul.ab #3, qKil ; C=3 qFas:mul.b qBmb, @qSlo qSki:sne >3456, @qKil add #qd, qKil qLoo:mov qBmb, @qKil qKil:mov qBmb, *qs sub #qi, qKil djn qLoo, #qr jmp pGo, >10 ; A=10 qBmb:dat {qi*qr-10, {6 ; B=6 end start From: Hillis Subject: infinite hills and benchmarks Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 23:01:02 -0400 Message-ID: <3AE8E0EE.5EF61397@erols.com> How can you use information from an infinite hill to estimate a warrior's chances of getting onto a hill at KotH or PIZZA? I'm interested in this subject because (surprise) it relates to evolving core warriors. Here are a couple of ideas. Koeniqstuhl calculates the subscores of every warrior on the infinite hill against every other warrior (presumably storing them in a table) and then forms a recursive hill where the score of each warrior is based on a weighted sum of its subscores. It might be handy to be able to approximate this recursive score for a new warrior without competing it against all the warriors on the hill. Competing the new warrior against the top 12 warriors on the recursive hill and averaging the scores is unlikely to work :-( But if you set it up as a search problem, find N warriors and N weights such that, for each warrior, the weighted sum of the subscores approximates the recursive scores, it might be fairly easy to do. Now the second idea. Unlike the first, I have coded it up already. I took the top 400 warriors from the recursive 94nop hill at Koeniqstuhl and calculated the relevant subscores (fortunately I only need some of them). Then I let the warriors play an endless game of KOTH against each other with a size 20 virtual hill. (Because the subscores are in a table, simulating the battles takes very little time.) This process is like a GA experiment without the GA. Now I can take a warrior, calculate its hill score for each point in time and plot this score against the lowest score on the virtual hill to get a graphical look at when the warrior would have gotten onto the virtual hill and when it wouldn't have. Or I can take the time average to produce a single number. It's also interesting to vary parameters and see how that can impact the behavior of the virtual hill. Maybe I'll apply for a grant so I can pursue this further ;-) Dave Hillis From: "Ian" Subject: Re: #%HOW TO BECOME MILLIONARE IN WEEKS?!#! Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 00:29:41 +0100 Message-ID: <9ccvbn$kqu$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk> It is illeagel, its a form of illeagel gambling > THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL! You are requesting a legitimate service and you > are paying for it! Like most of us I was a little skeptical and a little > worried about the legal aspects of it all. So I checked it out with the U.S. > Post Office (1-800-725-2161) and they confirmed that it is indeed legal! > Mail the 6 envelopes to the following addresses........ > > #1) Rob Rowlands, 2 Tabora St Forestville, NSW, Australia 2087 > #2) Cru Chen, 68 Churton Dr, Churton Park, Wellington 04, New Zealand > #3) Agatha Robinson 3580 McGhee Place Dr. S. (apt .108) Montgomery, AL 36111 > #4) Nicole Franklin, 13576 Birwood, Detroit, MI 48238 > #5) Eric LILET, 215 Boulevard E. BOCKSTAEL, 1020 Brussels, Belgium > #6) Ante Markovina, Dubrovacka 1, 51000 Rijeka, Croatia > > STEP 2: Now take the #1 name off the list that you see above, move the other > names up (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc...) and add YOUR Name as number 6 on > the list. STEP 3 Change anything you need to, but try to keep this article > as close to original as possible. Now, post your amended article to at least > 200 newsgroups. (I think there are close to 24,000 groups) All you need is > 200, but remember, the more you post, the more money you make! ** EVERYBODY > AROUND THE WORLD CAN DO IT, BUT REMEMBER TO PUT ENOUGH STAMPS ON YOUR > EVELOPES!!!!** This is perfectly legal! If you have any doubts, refer to > Title 18 Sec. 1302 & 1341 of the Postal lottery laws. Keep a copy of these > steps for yourself and, whenever you need money, you can use it again, and > again. PLEASE REMEMBER that this program remains successful because of the > honesty and integrity of the participants and by their carefully adhering to > the directions. Look at it this way. If you are of integrity, the program > will continue and the money that so many others have received will come your > way. NOTE You may want to retain every name and address sent to you, either > on a computer or hard copy and keep the notes people send you. This VERIFIES > that you are truly providing a service. (Also, it might be a good idea to > wrap the $5 bill in dark paper to reduce the risk of mail theft.) So, as > each post is downloaded and the directions carefully followed, six members > will be reimbursed for their participation as a List Developer with 5 dollar > each. Your name will move up the list geometrically so that when your name > reaches the #1 position you will be receiving thousands of dollars in > CASH!!! What an opportunity for only $30 ($5 for each of the first six > people listed above) Send it now, add your own name to the list and you're > in business! > > ---DIRECTIONS ----- FOR HOW TO POST TO NEWSGROUPS------------ > Step 1: > You do not need to re-type this entire letter to do your own posting. Simply > put your cursor at the beginning of this letter and drag your cursor to the > bottom of this document, and select 'copy' from the edit menu. This will > copy the entire letter into the computer's memory. > Step 2: > Open a blank 'notepad' file and place your cursor at the top of the blank > page. From the 'edit' menu select 'paste'. This will paste a copy of the > letter into notepad so that you can add your name to the list. > Step 3: > Save your new notepad file as a .txt file. If you want to do your postings > in different settings, you'll always have this file to go back to. > Step 4: > Use Netscape or Internet explorer and try searching for various newsgroups > (on-line forums, message boards, chat sites, discussions.) > > Step 5: > Visit these message boards and post this article as a new message by > highlighting the text of this letter and selecting paste from the edit menu. > Fill in the Subject, this will be the header that everyone sees as they > scroll through the list of postings in a particular group, click the post > message button. You're done with your first one! > > Congratulations...THAT'S IT! All you have to do is jump to different > newsgroups and post away, after you get the hang of it, it will take about > 30 seconds for each newsgroup! **REMEMBER, THE MORE NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN > (Massage-boards etc.) THE MORE MONEY YOU WILL MAKE!! BUT YOU HAVE TO POST A > MINIMUM OF 200 That's it! You will begin receiving money from around the > world within days! You may eventually want to rent a P.O.Box due to the > large amount of mail you will receive. If you wish to stay anonymous, you > can invent a name to use, as long as the postman will deliver it. *JUST MAKE > SURE ALL THE ADDRESSES ARE CORRECT.** > > Now the WHY part Out of 200 postings, say I receive only 5 replies (a very > low example). So then I made $25.00 with my name at #6 on the letter. Now, > each of the 5 persons who just sent me $5 make the MINIMUM 200 postings, > each with my name at #5 and only 5 persons respond to each of the original > 5, that is another $125.00 for me, now those 25 each make 200 MINIMUM posts > with my name at #4 and only 5 replies each, I will bring in an additional > $625.00! Now, those 125 persons turn around and post the MINIMUM 200 with my > name at #3 and only receive 5 replies each, I will make an additional > $3125.00! OK, now here is the fun part, each of those 625 persons post a > MINIMUM 200 letters with my name at #2 and they each only receive 5 replies, > that just made me $15625.00!!! Those 3,125 persons will all deliver this > message to 200 newsgroups with my name at #1 and if still 5 persons per 200 > newsgroups react I will receive $78125,00! With an original investment of > only $30! AMAZING! When your name is no longer on the list, you just take > the latest posting in the newsgroups, and send out another $30 to names on > the list, putting your name at number 6 again. And start posting again. The > thing to remember is do you realize that thousands of people all over the > world are joining the internet and reading these articles everyday?, JUST > LIKE YOU are now!! So, can you afford $30 and see if it really works?? I > think so... People have said, "what if the plan is played out and no one > sends you the money? So what! What are the chances of that happening when > there are tons of new honest users and new honest people who are joining the > internet and newsgroups everyday and are willing to give it a try? Estimates > are at 20,000 to 50,000 new users, every day, with thousands of those > joining the actual internet. Remember, play FAIRLY and HONESTLY and this > will really work. Don't let this exciting opportunity pass you by! GO FOR > IT, AND YOU WILL SMILE WITHIN WEEKS!!!, AS MANY DID > > > > > > > > From: "John" Subject: #%HOW TO BECOME MILLIONARE IN WEEKS?!#! Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 12:36:39 +1200 Message-ID: <9ccnss$da8c7$49@ID-87056.news.dfncis.de> #%HOW TO BECOME MILLIONARE IN WEEKS?!# HOW TO TURN $30 INTO $50,000!! OR MUCH MORE!! READING THIS COULD CHANGE YOUR LIFE! I started with $30 and I am now a 28 year old millionaire in only 3 months. I found this on a bulletin board and decided to try it. A little while back, I was browsing through newsgroups, just like you are now, and came across an article similar to this that said you could make thousands of dollars within weeks with only an initial investment of $30! So I thought, "Yeah right, this must be a scam", but like most of us, I was curious, so I kept reading. Anyway, it said that you send $5 to each of the 6 names and address stated in the article. You then place your own name and address in the bottom of the list at #6, and post the article in at least 200 newsgroups. (There are thousands) No catch, that was it. So after thinking it over, and talking to a few people first, I thought about trying it. I figured "what have I got to lose except 6 stamps and $30, right?" Then I invested the measly $30. Well GUESS WHAT!!... within 7 days, I started getting money in the mail! I was shocked! I figured it would end soon, but the money just kept coming in. In my first week, I made about $125.00. By the end of the second week I had made a total of over $10,000.00! In the third week I had over $40,000.00 and it's still growing. This is now my fourth week and I have made a total of just over $100,000.00 and it's still coming in rapidly. It's certainly worth $30, and 6 stamps, I have spent more than that on the lottery!! Let me tell you how this works and most importantly, why it works....Also, make sure you print a copy of this article NOW, so you can get the information off of it as you need it. I promise you that if you follow the directions exactly, that you will start making more money than you thought possible by doing something so easy! Suggestion Read this entire message carefully! (print it out or download it.) Follow the simple directions and watch the money come in! It's easy. It's legal. And, your investment is only $30 (Plus postage) IMPORTANT This is not a rip-off; it is not indecent; it is not illegal; and it is virtually no risk - it really works!!!! If all of the following instructions are adhered to, you will receive extraordinary dividends. PLEASE NOTE Please follow these directions EXACTLY, and $120,000 or more can be yours in 20 to 60 days. This program remains successful because of the honesty and integrity of the participants. Please continue its success by carefully adhering to the instructions. You will now become part of the Mail Order business. In this business your product is not solid and tangible, it's a service. You are in the business of developing Mailing Lists. Many large corporations are happy to pay big bucks for quality lists. However, the money made from the mailing lists is secondary to the income which is made from people like you and me asking to be included in that list. Here are the 4 easy steps to success STEP 1: Get 6 separate pieces of paper and write the following on each piece of paper "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST." Now get 6 US $5 bills and place ONE inside. EACH of the 6 pieces of paper so the bill will not be seen through the envelope (to prevent thievery). Next, place one paper in each of the 6 envelopes and seal them, MAKE SURE THAT THERE ARE ENOUGH STAMPS ON YOUR ENVELOPES!!(also for international purposes). You should now have 6 sealed envelopes, each with a piece of paper stating the above phrase, your name and address, and a $5 bill. What you are doing is creating a service. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL! You are requesting a legitimate service and you are paying for it! Like most of us I was a little skeptical and a little worried about the legal aspects of it all. So I checked it out with the U.S. Post Office (1-800-725-2161) and they confirmed that it is indeed legal! Mail the 6 envelopes to the following addresses........ #1) Rob Rowlands, 2 Tabora St Forestville, NSW, Australia 2087 #2) Cru Chen, 68 Churton Dr, Churton Park, Wellington 04, New Zealand #3) Agatha Robinson 3580 McGhee Place Dr. S. (apt .108) Montgomery, AL 36111 #4) Nicole Franklin, 13576 Birwood, Detroit, MI 48238 #5) Eric LILET, 215 Boulevard E. BOCKSTAEL, 1020 Brussels, Belgium #6) Ante Markovina, Dubrovacka 1, 51000 Rijeka, Croatia STEP 2: Now take the #1 name off the list that you see above, move the other names up (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc...) and add YOUR Name as number 6 on the list. STEP 3 Change anything you need to, but try to keep this article as close to original as possible. Now, post your amended article to at least 200 newsgroups. (I think there are close to 24,000 groups) All you need is 200, but remember, the more you post, the more money you make! ** EVERYBODY AROUND THE WORLD CAN DO IT, BUT REMEMBER TO PUT ENOUGH STAMPS ON YOUR EVELOPES!!!!** This is perfectly legal! If you have any doubts, refer to Title 18 Sec. 1302 & 1341 of the Postal lottery laws. Keep a copy of these steps for yourself and, whenever you need money, you can use it again, and again. PLEASE REMEMBER that this program remains successful because of the honesty and integrity of the participants and by their carefully adhering to the directions. Look at it this way. If you are of integrity, the program will continue and the money that so many others have received will come your way. NOTE You may want to retain every name and address sent to you, either on a computer or hard copy and keep the notes people send you. This VERIFIES that you are truly providing a service. (Also, it might be a good idea to wrap the $5 bill in dark paper to reduce the risk of mail theft.) So, as each post is downloaded and the directions carefully followed, six members will be reimbursed for their participation as a List Developer with 5 dollar each. Your name will move up the list geometrically so that when your name reaches the #1 position you will be receiving thousands of dollars in CASH!!! What an opportunity for only $30 ($5 for each of the first six people listed above) Send it now, add your own name to the list and you're in business! ---DIRECTIONS ----- FOR HOW TO POST TO NEWSGROUPS------------ Step 1: You do not need to re-type this entire letter to do your own posting. Simply put your cursor at the beginning of this letter and drag your cursor to the bottom of this document, and select 'copy' from the edit menu. This will copy the entire letter into the computer's memory. Step 2: Open a blank 'notepad' file and place your cursor at the top of the blank page. From the 'edit' menu select 'paste'. This will paste a copy of the letter into notepad so that you can add your name to the list. Step 3: Save your new notepad file as a .txt file. If you want to do your postings in different settings, you'll always have this file to go back to. Step 4: Use Netscape or Internet explorer and try searching for various newsgroups (on-line forums, message boards, chat sites, discussions.) Step 5: Visit these message boards and post this article as a new message by highlighting the text of this letter and selecting paste from the edit menu. Fill in the Subject, this will be the header that everyone sees as they scroll through the list of postings in a particular group, click the post message button. You're done with your first one! Congratulations...THAT'S IT! All you have to do is jump to different newsgroups and post away, after you get the hang of it, it will take about 30 seconds for each newsgroup! **REMEMBER, THE MORE NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN (Massage-boards etc.) THE MORE MONEY YOU WILL MAKE!! BUT YOU HAVE TO POST A MINIMUM OF 200 That's it! You will begin receiving money from around the world within days! You may eventually want to rent a P.O.Box due to the large amount of mail you will receive. If you wish to stay anonymous, you can invent a name to use, as long as the postman will deliver it. *JUST MAKE SURE ALL THE ADDRESSES ARE CORRECT.** Now the WHY part Out of 200 postings, say I receive only 5 replies (a very low example). So then I made $25.00 with my name at #6 on the letter. Now, each of the 5 persons who just sent me $5 make the MINIMUM 200 postings, each with my name at #5 and only 5 persons respond to each of the original 5, that is another $125.00 for me, now those 25 each make 200 MINIMUM posts with my name at #4 and only 5 replies each, I will bring in an additional $625.00! Now, those 125 persons turn around and post the MINIMUM 200 with my name at #3 and only receive 5 replies each, I will make an additional $3125.00! OK, now here is the fun part, each of those 625 persons post a MINIMUM 200 letters with my name at #2 and they each only receive 5 replies, that just made me $15625.00!!! Those 3,125 persons will all deliver this message to 200 newsgroups with my name at #1 and if still 5 persons per 200 newsgroups react I will receive $78125,00! With an original investment of only $30! AMAZING! When your name is no longer on the list, you just take the latest posting in the newsgroups, and send out another $30 to names on the list, putting your name at number 6 again. And start posting again. The thing to remember is do you realize that thousands of people all over the world are joining the internet and reading these articles everyday?, JUST LIKE YOU are now!! So, can you afford $30 and see if it really works?? I think so... People have said, "what if the plan is played out and no one sends you the money? So what! What are the chances of that happening when there are tons of new honest users and new honest people who are joining the internet and newsgroups everyday and are willing to give it a try? Estimates are at 20,000 to 50,000 new users, every day, with thousands of those joining the actual internet. Remember, play FAIRLY and HONESTLY and this will really work. Don't let this exciting opportunity pass you by! GO FOR IT, AND YOU WILL SMILE WITHIN WEEKS!!!, AS MANY DID Message-ID: <3AEAF722.B0885827@maine.rr.com> From: The Demogorgon Subject: Re: How to be a jerk off in one minute...! Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 13:00:18 -0400 OrionCA wrote: > On Sat, 28 Apr 2001 16:10:46 +1000, "JL1" > wrote: > > >Hey Arsehole.... Learn how to spell!! and > > > >F.....k Off with the spam OK. > > > > > > > >"Ian" wrote in message news:9ccvbn$kqu$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk... > >It is illeagel, its a form of illeagel gambling > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Here's an even easier way to be a jerk: Change the subject line and > start a new thread, then fail to quote any relevant text to show why > you think the poster should fuck off with the spam. > > Oh, and if you think you WON'T go to Hell or you don't l**k l**e > y**'** s****ing if you cutsy-poo replace the "uc" in "fuck" with > asterisks you're quite wrong. False piety is a sin of commission. > > -- > "I don't understand it. When I raised the tax from > 100% to 200% in Scara Brae revenues went from 107,000/day > to -1000. You wouldn't think raising taxes a little bit > would impact revenues so much: It must be a bug." > - Faction leader, complaining on OSI's forums. Actually, I've always wondered why it was okay to say "shucks" or "fudge" when it wasn't okay to say "shit" or "fuck." Since you're obviously implying the latter with the former, it seemed just as "wrong" to me. I don't really see swearing as wrong at all, though. -- --**<< The Demogorgon, Graymalkin Dragon, Elrick >>**-- From: "Insane Ranter" Subject: Re: How to be a jerk off in one minute...! Message-ID: Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 13:14:50 -0400 "JL1" wrote in message news:kouG6.13169$482.65668@newsfeeds.bigpond.com... > For your information boofhead....no new thread was started.. it was a direct reply to the original > spammer... Get with the program. Oh BTW fuck you to.. (there is that cute enough for you) With simple elegance you have managed to fall flay on your face. Not only have you do this fact for no logical reason but you did it too well. If everyone had you clumsiness it would very hard to believe that man would still be sitting in his cave wondering how to create fire. But alas not all of have your inability at logic and reason. Yet it seems that some matter of defective genetic material still exists in your family line that failed to become extinct whether caused by still human compassion, which you have none, or by some medical breakthrough or just by blind chance. It is your backward thinking that still keeps the rest of the human race from aspiring to the great highest that it could have already obtained some centuries ago. Yet we can only hope that you are incapable of passing on this defect from your line. We can all hope that you are sterile and unable to father/mother children or else some freakish act of nature will cause you to revert to such a state of unable to bear children. Yet if things are as they seem to be.. your kind tend to breed like rabbits and will continue to pollute the genetic stream of the human gene pool. Please do use all a favor and sacrifice yourself for the greater good of humanity by casually strolling in front of a moving train so that it may squash you out of the gene pool. Thank you and good day. Message-ID: <3AEAFFD9.F20DC97D@maine.rr.com> From: The Demogorgon Subject: Re: How to be a jerk off in one minute...! Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 13:37:29 -0400 Man, talk about blowing things out of proportion. This whole thread is like a bunch of pointless flames after another. I can understand not liking spam or anything that resembles spam, but for the love of god, flaming each other about who has the right to complain more is even worse! -- --**<< The Demogorgon, Graymalkin Dragon, Elrick >>**-- From: Katherine Subject: Re: How to be a jerk off in one minute...! Message-ID: Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 13:44:19 GMT On Sat, 28 Apr 2001 17:43:17 +1000, "JL1" expounded: >For your information boofhead....no new thread was started.. it was a direct reply to the original >spammer... Get with the program. Oh BTW fuck you to.. (there is that cute enough for you) #1 Changing the subject does, for many newsreaders, change the thread. #2 The person you attributed the spam to was NOT the person who posted the spam. Be careful of the attributions. Katherine, Grandmaster Healer Ciaran, Lia Fail Empire (Atlantic) Hosting Dr. Dolittle's Stories From: "JL1" Subject: How to be a jerk off in one minute...! Message-ID: Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 16:10:46 +1000 Hey Arsehole.... Learn how to spell!! and F.....k Off with the spam OK. "Ian" wrote in message news:9ccvbn$kqu$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk... It is illeagel, its a form of illeagel gambling > From: "JL1" Subject: Re: How to be a jerk off in one minute...! Message-ID: Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 17:43:17 +1000 For your information boofhead....no new thread was started.. it was a direct reply to the original spammer... Get with the program. Oh BTW fuck you to.. (there is that cute enough for you) "OrionCA" wrote in message news:9ksketk00kl7vrassv247668lmfoupcj1f@4ax.com... On Sat, 28 Apr 2001 16:10:46 +1000, "JL1" wrote: >Hey Arsehole.... Learn how to spell!! and > >F.....k Off with the spam OK. > > > >"Ian" wrote in message news:9ccvbn$kqu$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk... >It is illeagel, its a form of illeagel gambling > > >> > > > Here's an even easier way to be a jerk: Change the subject line and start a new thread, then fail to quote any relevant text to show why you think the poster should fuck off with the spam. Oh, and if you think you WON'T go to Hell or you don't l**k l**e y**'** s****ing if you cutsy-poo replace the "uc" in "fuck" with asterisks you're quite wrong. False piety is a sin of commission. -- "I don't understand it. When I raised the tax from 100% to 200% in Scara Brae revenues went from 107,000/day to -1000. You wouldn't think raising taxes a little bit would impact revenues so much: It must be a bug." - Faction leader, complaining on OSI's forums. From: "JL1" Subject: Re: How to be a jerk off in one minute...! Message-ID: Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 17:41:01 +1000 "OrionCA" wrote in message news:9ksketk00kl7vrassv247668lmfoupcj1f@4ax.com... On Sat, 28 Apr 2001 16:10:46 +1000, "JL1" wrote: >Hey Arsehole.... Learn how to spell!! and > >F.....k Off with the spam OK. > > > >"Ian" wrote in message news:9ccvbn$kqu$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk... >It is illeagel, its a form of illeagel gambling > > >> > > > Here's an even easier way to be a jerk: Change the subject line and start a new thread, then fail to quote any relevant text to show why you think the poster should fuck off with the spam. Oh, and if you think you WON'T go to Hell or you don't l**k l**e y**'** s****ing if you cutsy-poo replace the "uc" in "fuck" with asterisks you're quite wrong. False piety is a sin of commission. -- "I don't understand it. When I raised the tax from 100% to 200% in Scara Brae revenues went from 107,000/day to -1000. You wouldn't think raising taxes a little bit would impact revenues so much: It must be a bug." - Faction leader, complaining on OSI's forums. From: "Insane Ranter" Subject: Re: How to be a jerk off in one minute...! Message-ID: Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 22:59:08 -0400 "JL1" wrote in message news:yXIG6.13551$482.68923@newsfeeds.bigpond.com... > Well said.......and I couldn't agree with you more.....For everyone else who want to put their 2 > cents worth in I have now lost interest in the subject, so go your hardest if you wish to I really > couldn't care less......thank you. > > To those who wasted their time reading the damn flames after the original one sent by me I > apologize.......Bye now. > Hypocrite. From: "JL1" Subject: Re: How to be a jerk off in one minute...! Message-ID: Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 09:51:47 +1000 Re 1. I agree to disagree, nuff said 2. Yes I realise that now....It still doesn't answer the Q of why it made to this forum in the first place. Hey shit happens. "Katherine" wrote in message news:C8nqOo5Vbm1euLMMfnmYZFHmSW0X@4ax.com... On Sat, 28 Apr 2001 17:43:17 +1000, "JL1" expounded: >For your information boofhead....no new thread was started.. it was a direct reply to the original >spammer... Get with the program. Oh BTW fuck you to.. (there is that cute enough for you) #1 Changing the subject does, for many newsreaders, change the thread. #2 The person you attributed the spam to was NOT the person who posted the spam. Be careful of the attributions. Katherine, Grandmaster Healer Ciaran, Lia Fail Empire (Atlantic) Hosting Dr. Dolittle's Stories From: "JL1" Subject: Re: How to be a jerk off in one minute...! Message-ID: Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 09:55:38 +1000 Yes. Very clever. I applaud your outstanding abilities....your wit etc etc...and also the fact you have shown everyone your a sanctimonious prick.....Somehow I expected something better from a Southerner....Must be the polluted air in Dallas that has affected your brain cells. "OrionCA" wrote in message news:6isletshfb32gn3h5v4b925b1p6m1884a3@4ax.com... On Sat, 28 Apr 2001 17:43:17 +1000, "JL1" wrote: >For your information boofhead....no new thread was started.. it was a direct reply to the original >spammer... Get with the program. Oh BTW fuck you to.. (there is that cute enough for you) What makes you think a spammer even reads the newsgroups he spams? In most cases they're using a utility to mass-post to newsgroups; the group names are just pulled down from a list of available newsgroups on his news server. Oh, and it's also improper to quote text w/o providing a quotation indicator at the beginning of the line, aka: >For your information boofhead....no new thread was started.. it was a direct reply to the original >spammer... Get with the program. Oh BTW fuck you to.. (there is that cute enough for you) or: |For your information boofhead....no new thread was started.. |it was a direct reply to the original |spammer... Get with the program. Oh BTW fuck you to.. |(there is that cute enough for you) or whatever character you've selected to be your quotation identifier. Otherwise the readers can't easily tell where the quoted text ends and your comments begin. Outlook Express is pretty much a kiddy-newsreader (only kiddies use it) but it DOES add quotation identifiers by default. You must have been fooling around with the settings and messed them up. -- "I don't understand it. When I raised the tax from 100% to 200% in Scara Brae revenues went from 107,000/day to -1000. You wouldn't think raising taxes a little bit would impact revenues so much: It must be a bug." - Faction leader, complaining on OSI's forums. From: "JL1" Subject: Re: How to be a jerk off in one minute...! Message-ID: Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 10:10:27 +1000 So where did you cut and paste this passage out of...hmm..... I really don't think you would have the intelligence to think it up all by yourself.........I won't bother about getting into the relative merits of our respective genetic defects, if any....although I must admit I would find it extremely difficult to fall (flay?) on my face...must be that genetic spelling defect in your line..what do you think?...Perhaps your nom-de-plume says it all! This has become rather tedious....How about we all just get back to the bloody forum issues ok.....I was merely venting my spleen and displeasure on the original crossposter of the spam. We have enough of that shit in our lives as it is....... "Insane Ranter" wrote in message news:OTCG6.4051$NH5.251674@news2.atl... "JL1" wrote in message news:kouG6.13169$482.65668@newsfeeds.bigpond.com... > For your information boofhead....no new thread was started.. it was a direct reply to the original > spammer... Get with the program. Oh BTW fuck you to.. (there is that cute enough for you) With simple elegance you have managed to fall flay on your face. Not only have you do this fact for no logical reason but you did it too well. If everyone had you clumsiness it would very hard to believe that man would still be sitting in his cave wondering how to create fire. But alas not all of have your inability at logic and reason. Yet it seems that some matter of defective genetic material still exists in your family line that failed to become extinct whether caused by still human compassion, which you have none, or by some medical breakthrough or just by blind chance. It is your backward thinking that still keeps the rest of the human race from aspiring to the great highest that it could have already obtained some centuries ago. Yet we can only hope that you are incapable of passing on this defect from your line. We can all hope that you are sterile and unable to father/mother children or else some freakish act of nature will cause you to revert to such a state of unable to bear children. Yet if things are as they seem to be.. your kind tend to breed like rabbits and will continue to pollute the genetic stream of the human gene pool. Please do use all a favor and sacrifice yourself for the greater good of humanity by casually strolling in front of a moving train so that it may squash you out of the gene pool. Thank you and good day. From: Stephen Anthony Uy Subject: Unsubscribing Date: 29 Apr 2001 10:11:00 -0400 Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20010428201454.009f99f0@ea-pop.oac.uci.edu> How do I unsubscribe? I've tried to unsubscribe repeatedly, but apparently the listserv doesn't want to let me go. -Steve -- email.(ROT-13)................tsanthNO@SPAMiname.com aim...........................................tsanth homepage.......................http://www.tsanth.com From: "JL1" Subject: Re: How to be a jerk off in one minute...! Message-ID: Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 10:16:34 +1000 Well said.......and I couldn't agree with you more.....For everyone else who want to put their 2 cents worth in I have now lost interest in the subject, so go your hardest if you wish to I really couldn't care less......thank you. To those who wasted their time reading the damn flames after the original one sent by me I apologize.......Bye now. "The Demogorgon" wrote in message news:3AEAFFD9.F20DC97D@maine.rr.com... Man, talk about blowing things out of proportion. This whole thread is like a bunch of pointless flames after another. I can understand not liking spam or anything that resembles spam, but for the love of god, flaming each other about who has the right to complain more is even worse! -- --**<< The Demogorgon, Graymalkin Dragon, Elrick >>**-- From: Nathan F Russell Subject: Re: Unsubscribing Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 10:39:57 -0400 Message-ID: Stephen Anthony Uy wrote: >How do I unsubscribe? I've tried to unsubscribe repeatedly, but apparently >the listserv doesn't want to let me go. > >-Steve Whether you are "subscribed" to a newsgroup is a setting on your client only. You should consult its documentation. Nathan From: "Martin Ankerl" Subject: Re: How to be a jerk off in one minute...! Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 13:37:51 +0200 Message-ID: <3aebfce4@alijku02.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at> You post offtopic messages to rec.games.corewars. Please stop this. Thanks. Martin From: pak21@cam.ac.uk (Philip Kendall) Subject: Re: Unsubscribing Date: 29 Apr 2001 16:35:59 +0100 Message-ID: <9chccv$ki7$1@kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk> In article , Nathan F Russell wrote: >Stephen Anthony Uy wrote: > >>How do I unsubscribe? I've tried to unsubscribe repeatedly, but apparently >>the listserv doesn't want to let me go. >> >Whether you are "subscribed" to a newsgroup is a setting on your >client only. > >You should consult its documentation. [I can't see the original post here, so I'm guessing, but...] Remember that there is also the corewar-l mailing list mirror of r.g.cw; instructions for this are at http://www.koth.org/newsgroup.html. If you still can't get off the list, mail the admin (Tuc? JKW? Anyone know for sure?) HTH, Phil -- Philip Kendall http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~pak21/ Message-ID: <3AECF04C.17E1EA23@maine.rr.com> From: The Demogorgon Subject: Re: How to be a jerk off in one minute...! Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 00:55:40 -0400 OrionCA wrote: > On Sat, 28 Apr 2001 13:00:18 -0400, The Demogorgon > wrote: > > >> Oh, and if you think you WON'T go to Hell or you don't l**k l**e > >> y**'** s****ing if you cutsy-poo replace the "uc" in "fuck" with > >> asterisks you're quite wrong. False piety is a sin of commission. > >> > >> -- > >> "I don't understand it. When I raised the tax from > >> 100% to 200% in Scara Brae revenues went from 107,000/day > >> to -1000. You wouldn't think raising taxes a little bit > >> would impact revenues so much: It must be a bug." > >> - Faction leader, complaining on OSI's forums. > > > >Actually, I've always wondered why it was okay to say "shucks" or "fudge" when it wasn't okay to > >say "shit" or "fuck." Since you're obviously implying the latter with the former, it seemed just > >as "wrong" to me. I don't really see swearing as wrong at all, though. > > In the Christian ethic there are no 'points' for sins: You either > commit one or you don't. It isn't, "Darn is a 1 pointer and "Damn" is > a 5 pointer, the F-word is worth a cool 50!", *ANY* sin unrepented > puts you in Hell. This concept bothers people because it means > swiping a coke out of the machine w/o paying put you on the same moral > level with, say, Jeffrey Dalmer. Well, that's true: Hell doesn't > have cheap seats. > > In a sense euphamisms are worse than the swear words they replace: > You're saying, "Look, I know these words are bad and hurtful and > spiteful, but by putting a '*' in place of them I'm trying not to get > blamed for using them!" Trying to have your cake and eat it, too, as > it were. > > Best thing to do is just use the word that you think appropriate to > the occasion and not worry about it too much. On a point system every > human being on this planet builds enough of these up by the age of 8 > to spring the trapdoor. If there is a God you have to hope He's the > infinitely merciful sort. > -- > "I don't understand it. When I raised the tax from > 100% to 200% in Scara Brae revenues went from 107,000/day > to -1000. You wouldn't think raising taxes a little bit > would impact revenues so much: It must be a bug." > - Faction leader, complaining on OSI's forums. That was more or less what I was saying. Then again, I don't see how specific words could possibly be worse than others. If you're kidding around and call a friend an asshole in jest in school, you would be chastised, whereas if you called someone an ignorant pig-dog (read: schweinhund) and meant it to hurt, there would be no repercussions. And somehow this is supposed to make sense... -- --**<< The Demogorgon, Graymalkin Dragon, Elrick >>**-- From: Bateau Subject: Re: How to be a jerk off in one minute...! Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 01:10:49 +0800 Message-ID: JL1: Do you expect me to reply?? Bateau: No Mr JL1, I expect you to die! >Hey Arsehole.... Learn how to spell!! and > >F.....k Off with the spam OK. What's with all the fucking cluebies these days replying to spam? -- | _ \ _ ^~ email:bateau at jupiter-io.net | <')_,/ , ; \ >(')__, . ` ' , ,______________._ | (_~=/ \._`.'. \ (_~_/ _, '------:_______ ;==( *BANG* | ='- \=~_) ; \ ~^~~^~ ` (_~_/ | | `-\ \ *BANG* | ICQ:11367619 -'= \ ~^~~^~ `~' \_; From: Bateau Subject: Re: How to be a jerk off in one minute...! Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 01:13:08 +0800 Message-ID: JL1: Do you expect me to reply?? Bateau: No Mr JL1, I expect you to die! >For your information boofhead....no new thread was started.. it was a direct reply to the original >spammer... Get with the program. Oh BTW fuck you to.. (there is that cute enough for you) On usenet, changing the topic IS starting a new thread. That's the way most people configure their newsreaders and it's the most convenient. Go back to your yahoo message boards, kook. -- | _ \ _ ^~ email:bateau at jupiter-io.net | <')_,/ , ; \ >(')__, . ` ' , ,______________._ | (_~=/ \._`.'. \ (_~_/ _, '------:_______ ;==( *BANG* | ='- \=~_) ; \ ~^~~^~ ` (_~_/ | | `-\ \ *BANG* | ICQ:11367619 -'= \ ~^~~^~ `~' \_; From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - Standard 04/30/01 Date: 30 Apr 2001 08:38:50 -0400 Message-ID: <200104300400.AAA28974@gevjon.ttsg.com> Weekly Status on 04/30/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG Standard KotH CoreWar Hill : Last battle concluded at : Wed Apr 25 11:23:21 EDT 2001 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 31/ 20/ 49 Freight Train David Moore 142 74 2 30/ 20/ 50 sIMPly.Red v0.95 Leonardo Humberto 141 31 3 38/ 37/ 25 Stasis David Moore 139 181 4 29/ 20/ 51 Test Alexander (Sasha) Wa 139 13 5 40/ 44/ 16 Foggy Swamp Beppe Bezzi 137 70 6 28/ 21/ 51 Guardian Ian Oversby 136 73 7 40/ 44/ 16 Blur '88 Anton Marsden 135 111 8 34/ 35/ 31 PacMan David Moore 134 103 9 36/ 40/ 24 Beholder's Eye V1.7 W. Mintardjo 131 349 10 33/ 37/ 29 Tangle Trap David Moore 130 147 11 22/ 16/ 62 EV Paper John K Wilkinson 128 87 12 29/ 30/ 41 Frog Sticker P.Kline 128 23 13 25/ 22/ 54 Shish-Ka-Bob Ben Ford 127 29 14 36/ 46/ 17 Iron Gate Wayne Sheppard 127 399 15 37/ 47/ 16 ig Wayne Sheppard 126 1 16 22/ 19/ 59 Test I Ian Oversby 126 130 17 23/ 21/ 56 Evoltmp 88 John K W 126 124 18 32/ 38/ 31 Stillborn Bomber v0.2 mjp 126 14 19 23/ 20/ 57 sic Leonardo H. Liporati 125 3 20 13/ 3/ 84 ]enigma[ Michal Janeczek 123 2 21 2/ 25/ 73 Imp Source Eike Preuss 79 0 From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - 94 No Pspace 04/30/01 Date: 30 Apr 2001 08:38:47 -0400 Message-ID: <200104300400.AAA28988@gevjon.ttsg.com> Weekly Status on 04/30/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG 94 No Pspace CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Sat Apr 28 12:06:40 EDT 2001 # %W/ %L/ %T Name Author Score Age 1 33/ 18/ 49 Son of Vain Oversby/Pihlaja 147 79 2 41/ 40/ 18 Eraser II Ken Espiritu 143 447 3 41/ 41/ 18 G2-b David Moore 142 276 4 41/ 40/ 19 Behemot Michal Janeczek 142 313 5 31/ 22/ 47 Olivia Ben Ford 141 218 6 31/ 24/ 45 Quicksilver Michal Janeczek 138 252 7 34/ 31/ 35 Blacken Ian Oversby 137 737 8 35/ 34/ 32 Keyser Soze Anton Marsden 136 191 9 39/ 43/ 18 Jinx Christian Schmidt 135 453 10 27/ 20/ 53 nPaper II Paul-V Khuong 135 490 11 41/ 49/ 10 Kenshin Steve Gunnell 133 80 12 22/ 11/ 67 The Phantom Menace Anton Marsden 133 190 13 29/ 24/ 47 Uninvited John Metcalf 133 172 14 29/ 25/ 46 Vain Ian Oversby 132 1 15 38/ 46/ 16 ctest P.Kline 131 6 16 28/ 25/ 46 Brigadeer M Joonas Pihlaja 131 83 17 27/ 24/ 49 Pulp Ian Oversby 130 4 18 27/ 24/ 50 Jade Ben Ford 129 559 19 28/ 27/ 45 Qtest Christian Schmidt 129 12 20 28/ 32/ 40 Velvet Fist Ayan Chakrabarti 124 62 21 5/ 54/ 41 qpp 1.2 Stefan Foerster 55 0 From: Koth Subject: KOTH.ORG: Status - MultiWarrior 94 04/30/01 Date: 30 Apr 2001 08:38:54 -0400 Message-ID: <200104300400.AAA28978@gevjon.ttsg.com> Weekly Status on 04/30/01 -=- irc.KOTH.org is up! Meetings held in #corewars -=- Tons of new features on www.KOTH.org/koth.html pages -=- *FAQ* page located at: www.KOTH.org/corewar-faq.html Current Status of the KOTH.ORG Multiwarrior 94 CoreWar Hill: Last battle concluded at : Sat Apr 28 20:08:47 EDT 2001 # Name Author Score Age 1 QuiVa John Metcalf 29 149 2 Her Majesty P.Kline 27 75 3 D-clearM Ken Espiritu 25 56 4 Pitbull Christian Schmidt 24 12 5 Scan Test Tester 23 15 6 fclear Brian Haskin 22 40 7 Friction Ken Espiritu 20 28 8 Dracula's Cape Ben Ford 18 34 9 Foo John Metcalf 13 10 10 j0 Stefan Foerster 9 1 11 Double Dwarf James Rand (jrand@cs 0 0 From: ransom@localhost.localdomain (Ransom Smith) Subject: Re: How to be a jerk off in one minute...! Message-ID: Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 12:23:22 GMT On Sun, 29 Apr 2001 13:37:51 +0200, Martin Ankerl wrote: >You post offtopic messages to rec.games.corewars. Please stop this. Thanks. > >Martin > > Uh... Dude... Your post didn't go to any other of the cross-posted newsgroups. And yes, I was thinking the same thing. But don't. Just leave it, it'll go away quicker. -- [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=5913] [foehg@burtonian.com] [http://www.koth.org/] [http://www.nethack.org/] [http://www.slashdot.org/] I reserve the right to be normal, at any time and without notice. From: Planar Subject: Re: How to be a jerk off in one minute...! Date: 30 Apr 2001 13:06:55 GMT Message-ID: <9cjo1f$54r$1@ites.inria.fr> >From: ransom@localhost.localdomain (Ransom Smith) >Uh... >Dude... >Your post didn't go to any other of the cross-posted newsgroups. >And yes, I was thinking the same thing. >But don't. >Just leave it, it'll go away quicker. I'm canceling all the cross-posted messages. It's a bit cavalier, but I hope it will help stop the thread. -- Planar From: "Todd Bailey" Subject: Re: How to be a jerk off in one minute...! Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 14:59:47 -0700 Message-ID: JL1 wrote in message news:jAIG6.13535$482.68526@newsfeeds.bigpond.com... > Re > 1. I agree to disagree, nuff said > 2. Yes I realise that now....It still doesn't answer the Q of why it made to this forum in the first > place. >>>> Hey shit happens. <<<<< > And you are living proof! ;-)